JamDav1982
Senior Member
Real do care and they rested first team players for earlier tie as should have been cruising through.
Zidane did change it when facing elimination.
10 - Lionel Messi - v5
- Thread starter Barcaman
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Real do care and they rested first team players for earlier tie as should have been cruising through.
Zidane did change it when facing elimination.
Givenchy
Senior Member
I know people want to see Messi rested like Madrid do with Ronaldo and maybe its selfish of me but fuck that.. i want to witness the GOAT playing as long as possible. nobody cares if Ronaldo doesn't play a few games as watching him is boring, he barely does anything anyway outside of scoring. Leo on the other hand gets people off their seats, theres usually a moment every game where he produces highlight worthy magic
Madrid don't purposely throw the Copa either, they'd love a treble to rival our Pep era
Madrid don't purposely throw the Copa either, they'd love a treble to rival our Pep era
M
MessiCam
Guest
About the Copa too... Barça also only play the main players if necessary in the second leg. The first legs are almost always reserved for the reserves and La Masia kids.
And yeah, Messi prefers to play every 3 days but he should accept more rest in the League. The league is the killer.
Neymessi
Active member
Real do not care. Zidane didn't change shit when losing and didn't start anywhere near a good lineup. They really do not care.
We should be resting as much as possible until the finals. On any other day I wouldn't want that but with RM winning 4 cl in last 5 years, its time we man up and go for the big trophies. No one gives 2 shits about copa.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
You are wrong JamDav, sorry.
1/4s of CDR, Levante:Real lineups:
1st match:
Casilla
Hernandez, Vallejo, Varane, Carvajal
Kovacic, Lorente
Asensio, Ceballos, Vasquez
Mayoral
That's what? 2 starters in Varane and Carvajal.
2nd game:
Casilla
Hernandez, Ramos, Nacho, Hakimi
Kovacic, Lorente, Isco
Vasquez, Benzema, Asensio
3 starters in Ramos, Isco and Benzema.
So, out of 22 spots in 2 matches, Real played with 5 starters and 17 subs.
And lost to Leganes... Yeah, they weren't too sad.
On the other hand, Barca vs Espanyol in 1/4s:
Cillessen
Digne, Verm, Pique, Roberto
Denis, Alena, Busi, Paulinho, Vidal
Messi
Starters: Pique, Roberto, Busi, Messi (the dumbest thing)
2nd match:
Cillessen
Alba, Pique, Umtiti, Roberto
Iniesta, Raki, Busi, Vidal
Messi, Suarez
9 starters.
So, Real played with 2+3 starters. And zero minutes for CR7.
We played with 4+9 starters and 180 minutes for Messi.
I mean, even in 1/8 we played against Celta, 2nd leg with:
Semedo, Pique, Alba, Iniesta, Busquets, Rakitic, Messi, Suarez
Even in the 1st match against Celta (1:1), we played with Pique, Semedo, Busquets, Paulinho and Rakitic, Dembele and Roberto entered in the 2nd half.
While Rm's lineup in 1/8 against Numancia 1st match was:
Casilla
Hernandez, Nacho, Vallejo, Carvajal
Ceballos, Lorente
Bale, Asensio, Vasquez
Mayoral
Players who entered were: Isco, Kovacic and Hakimi.
So, Barca vs Celta 1st match in 1/8: Paulinho was a starter then, so let's say 3 starters and 2 subs from starting 11.
In the 2nd leg: 7 starters.
Real in 1/8: 1 starter (Carvajal) and 1 starter entering later (Isco).
So, Barca is losing energy even in 1/8 and 1/4 of copa with key players and Messi playing 90 minutes.
While for RM:
Kroos, 0 minutes in CDR this season.
Casemiro: 1 match
Cr7: 0 matches
Last 4 years:
Copa del rey:
CR7: 4 matches in 4 years
Kroos: 7 matches in 4 years
Modric: 7 matches in 4 years
Casemiro: 7 matches in 3 years
Benzema: 11 matches in 4 years
Now, Barca:
Messi: 24 matches in 4 years
Suarez: 22 matches in 4 years
Iniesta: 21 matches in 4 years
Rakitic: 29 matches in 4 years (wtf?)
Busquets: 21 matches in 4 years
So, for example, over the last 4 years, RM's 2 starting CMs Modric and Kroos played 7+7=14 matches in CDR.
While our 2 starting Cms, Iniesta and Rakitic played 21+29=50 (lol) matches in CDR.
Or, their 3 midfielders played 7+7+7 matches in 4 years=21 match in total.
Our 3 midfielders played 29+21+21=71 matches in total.
71 vs 21 matches.
A million dollar question: who had more energy in March, April and May: tired turtles Rakitic, Iniesta and Busquets or rested Kroos, Modric and Casemiro?
Add to this that CR7 played 4 CDR matches in 4 years, while Messi played 24 CDR matches in 4 years.
And here is one explanation why we look like grannies every season in March and April.
While RM's midfield (and CR7) is flying all over a field in CL's quarters and semis.
No wonder that this happens in every May:
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JamDav1982
Senior Member
Nope not wrong.
Real do care about Copa and after being 1-0 up from that 1st leg should have been through.
You are wrong and can see Real care about it and involve big guns when feel needed.
You however were wrong in claiming almost as a fact Barca would win CL this year. Even during the Roma game.
Of course Real players have played less. They have not gone as far and got thrown out one year.
Real do care about Copa and after being 1-0 up from that 1st leg should have been through.
You are wrong and can see Real care about it and involve big guns when feel needed.
You however were wrong in claiming almost as a fact Barca would win CL this year. Even during the Roma game.
Of course Real players have played less. They have not gone as far and got thrown out one year.
ebc_99
Active member
We can beat any team in Europe, our problem has been our mentality, not our players. With Coutinho, Dembele and possibly Griezmann and hopefully Thiago we would have arguably the best first 11. And more importantly is that they are hungry for success and will offer competition for places which is something Real have that we don't. I am very confident, we are just missing a few details.
Felipetonelo
New member
This "Messi doesn't like to rest" is easy to solve. I'm assuming players are tested after every match about their fitness level.
You need the physical trainer or the doctors to tell Messi that he's not rested enough and should not play. Lie if you need. He will complain, of course, then just create a very complicated graph and show him that he's about to suffer an injury.
You need the physical trainer or the doctors to tell Messi that he's not rested enough and should not play. Lie if you need. He will complain, of course, then just create a very complicated graph and show him that he's about to suffer an injury.
vlad
New member
Its not enough bring superstars in the squad and expect results in CL, agree or not, you need to have 1, 2, thugs which will scare opponent players to face them, i will use real for examole because obviously they have winning formula for CL, look at ramos, yesterday he did hell of a job to stop liverpool dominanting and switching domination, what do you think, does he really care what other fans think of him? He is celebrating 3rd CL in a row. Other guy is casemiro, guy doesnt let players get past him, maybe ball yes, but not the player, carvaja lwill kick you also if those 2 missed it.
Barca players got kicked vs inter, atletico 2 times, chelsea, juve, theycant respond to that, they expect referee to punish them, lack of agressivness is the main problem, and reason why barca didnt won more CLs during pep and after, so no, i dont think bringing griezmann or thiago will fix things
Edit: lack of leadership, true captain is problem also, superstars doesnt give you that, pique or messi for a captain is a joke
Barca players got kicked vs inter, atletico 2 times, chelsea, juve, theycant respond to that, they expect referee to punish them, lack of agressivness is the main problem, and reason why barca didnt won more CLs during pep and after, so no, i dont think bringing griezmann or thiago will fix things
Edit: lack of leadership, true captain is problem also, superstars doesnt give you that, pique or messi for a captain is a joke
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ebc_99
Active member
We don't need thugs lol, we just need to stop taking our opposition lightly and have more variety on the pitch. We have almost had the same midfield for the past decade, Busquets, Xavi/Rakitic & Iniesta. Teams have gotten used to that, Thiago will give us something different, so will Coutinho, Dembele and Griezmann. We have to stop playing players out of position, Zidane doesn't do that, why have we got a midfielder at right back??? Why did we have Masch in our defence for 7 years lol, no other club does this like we do. We have no competition for places, Suarez, Messi, Rakitic, Busquets, Iniesta, Umtiti, Alba, Roberto, Ter Stegen and Pique start every game if fit. Only the forth midfield player is up for grabs.
We beat Atletico nearly all the time, and when you play a team of that quality as much as we do then you are going to lose once in a while, its just a pity those defeats came in Europe, they still haven't beaten us in La Liga under Simeone. We beat Juve in the final pretty easily and then again in the group stages this season, in the 5 recent games they beat us once, every team would lose to Juve at least once if they played them 5 times, Real have played them 5 times in the same time-frame and lost twice. We played Inter 4 times in 2009/10 season and were the better side in 3 of them, we even beat them in the group without Messi, when we met in the semi the players thought it would be easy and got caught out just like with Roma this year. And besides we should have gone through but for a wrongly disallowed goal at the death. We have played Chelsea 6 times in the last decade, won 2, drew 3 & lost 1, the one we lost could have ended 5-0 to us had we taken our chances.
We are just missing little details, and are better than each of the teams that knocked us out which makes it even more frustrating. But 3 or 4 smart signings can change all that, Griezmann would be a major upgrade over Suarez, Thiago would be an upgrade over recent Iniesta and hopefully De Ligt or Lenglet and Arthur can be signed too. That should give us strength and depth and competition for places.
We beat Atletico nearly all the time, and when you play a team of that quality as much as we do then you are going to lose once in a while, its just a pity those defeats came in Europe, they still haven't beaten us in La Liga under Simeone. We beat Juve in the final pretty easily and then again in the group stages this season, in the 5 recent games they beat us once, every team would lose to Juve at least once if they played them 5 times, Real have played them 5 times in the same time-frame and lost twice. We played Inter 4 times in 2009/10 season and were the better side in 3 of them, we even beat them in the group without Messi, when we met in the semi the players thought it would be easy and got caught out just like with Roma this year. And besides we should have gone through but for a wrongly disallowed goal at the death. We have played Chelsea 6 times in the last decade, won 2, drew 3 & lost 1, the one we lost could have ended 5-0 to us had we taken our chances.
We are just missing little details, and are better than each of the teams that knocked us out which makes it even more frustrating. But 3 or 4 smart signings can change all that, Griezmann would be a major upgrade over Suarez, Thiago would be an upgrade over recent Iniesta and hopefully De Ligt or Lenglet and Arthur can be signed too. That should give us strength and depth and competition for places.
Blaugrana Bull
HiiiPoWeR
Yeah, rested Cristiano was amazing in the semis and in the final. Copa is the root of all evil.
All that rest for Ronaldo and he still ghosted all games since the 1st leg of the Quarter-finals.
FinBarcelonafan
Well-known member
You are wrong JamDav, sorry.
1/4s of CDR, Levante:Real lineups:
1st match:
Casilla
Hernandez, Vallejo, Varane, Carvajal
Kovacic, Lorente
Asensio, Ceballos, Vasquez
Mayoral
That's what? 2 starters in Varane and Carvajal.
2nd game:
Casilla
Hernandez, Ramos, Nacho, Hakimi
Kovacic, Lorente, Isco
Vasquez, Benzema, Asensio
3 starters in Ramos, Isco and Benzema.
So, out of 22 spots in 2 matches, Real played with 5 starters and 17 subs.
And lost to Leganes... Yeah, they weren't too sad.
On the other hand, Barca vs Espanyol in 1/4s:
Cillessen
Digne, Verm, Pique, Roberto
Denis, Alena, Busi, Paulinho, Vidal
Messi
Starters: Pique, Roberto, Busi, Messi (the dumbest thing)
2nd match:
Cillessen
Alba, Pique, Umtiti, Roberto
Iniesta, Raki, Busi, Vidal
Messi, Suarez
9 starters.
So, Real played with 2+3 starters. And zero minutes for CR7.
We played with 4+9 starters and 180 minutes for Messi.
I mean, even in 1/8 we played against Celta, 2nd leg with:
Semedo, Pique, Alba, Iniesta, Busquets, Rakitic, Messi, Suarez
Even in the 1st match against Celta (1:1), we played with Pique, Semedo, Busquets, Paulinho and Rakitic, Dembele and Roberto entered in the 2nd half.
While Rm's lineup in 1/8 against Numancia 1st match was:
Casilla
Hernandez, Nacho, Vallejo, Carvajal
Ceballos, Lorente
Bale, Asensio, Vasquez
Mayoral
Players who entered were: Isco, Kovacic and Hakimi.
So, Barca vs Celta 1st match in 1/8: Paulinho was a starter then, so let's say 3 starters and 2 subs from starting 11.
In the 2nd leg: 7 starters.
Real in 1/8: 1 starter (Carvajal) and 1 starter entering later (Isco).
So, Barca is losing energy even in 1/8 and 1/4 of copa with key players and Messi playing 90 minutes.
While for RM:
Kroos, 0 minutes in CDR this season.
Casemiro: 1 match
Cr7: 0 matches
Last 4 years:
Copa del rey:
CR7: 4 matches in 4 years
Kroos: 7 matches in 4 years
Modric: 7 matches in 4 years
Casemiro: 7 matches in 3 years
Benzema: 11 matches in 4 years
Now, Barca:
Messi: 24 matches in 4 years
Suarez: 22 matches in 4 years
Iniesta: 21 matches in 4 years
Rakitic: 29 matches in 4 years (wtf?)
Busquets: 21 matches in 4 years
So, for example, over the last 4 years, RM's 2 starting CMs Modric and Kroos played 7+7=14 matches in CDR.
While our 2 starting Cms, Iniesta and Rakitic played 21+29=50 (lol) matches in CDR.
Or, their 3 midfielders played 7+7+7 matches in 4 years=21 match in total.
Our 3 midfielders played 29+21+21=71 matches in total.
71 vs 21 matches.
A million dollar question: who had more energy in March, April and May: tired turtles Rakitic, Iniesta and Busquets or rested Kroos, Modric and Casemiro?
Add to this that CR7 played 4 CDR matches in 4 years, while Messi played 24 CDR matches in 4 years.
And here is one explanation why we look like grannies every season in March and April.
While RM's midfield (and CR7) is flying all over a field in CL's quarters and semis.
No wonder that this happens in every May:
Wow those are some eye opening statistics. We need to think about our priorities. Copa shouldn't be our priority. CL and league are. Copa would be great for younger and backup players. Barca just needs to understand it's almost impossible to win 3 competitions every single year. It takes too much mental and physical energy. No wonder Real is so fresh in CL...
DonAndres
Wild Man of Borneo
How do you just up and decide you're "not wrong" with literally nothing to back it up lmao. The lineup against Leganes was weak as fuck, the ONLY decent sub he made was Modric in like the 70th minute and you're talking about "Involve big guns" lmfao. A 1-0 lead on aggregate is hardly "already through", if they cared at all then Ronaldo, Bale, etc. would've at the very least made the match squad for emergency purposes but they didn't. BBZ literally posted statistical proof that RM starters are playing in the CDR far less than Barca starters, the extent of the disparity in playing time is glaring.
It's actually hilarious how you gloss over facts. BBZ literally proved that Barca play key players 3-4x as much (!!!!) in the CDR over the past 4 years and you actually believe that there's no disparity. You think they haven't gone as far as us every single year despite playing their A game? You think the team that can win 3 back to back CL's falls short in CDR despite giving the best effort? Imagine actually thinking that's a rational belief. They don't play to even half of their full potential in the CDR.
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