10 - Lionel Messi - v5

henias said:

Forget about evaluating whether fans and media consider CL or domestic league, Ballon d' or itself is very much flawed. The fact that these voters don't watch full games or even consider in-game stats, basically just vaguely rounding up goals and assists, where Ronaldo and Messi often triumph in these stats. It's no surprise that a less pupular candidate Sneijder would get snubbed. They then see whether who won the CL between Ronaldo and Messi and often vote for the one who won it. A headline picture with Ronaldo holding the trophy or winning an important international match would be powerful enough to throw off any voter's thought of placing others as first in their top 3 contenders. Ribery shud have won the one in 2013 because of the CL, but again Ronaldo got it bcos he was top scorer and an international hero. The Ballon shud nvr be used as an accurate benchmark for their performances in general.

It's definitely possible to win the CL without winning the domestic leagues, vice versa. Barcelona was the better team but they lacked tactical superiority against more defensive compact teams (Atletico, Juventus). It all boils down to tactics when u pit the best teams together.

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JamDav1982 said:

Dont even think it is about Barca v the defensive teams it is just bad choices by Lucho and top players dipping at wrong time.

Barca v Atletico domestically is something like 8 wins and 3 draws in last 11 games but in CL levels dropped and were put out by them twice in three years.

Barca have a better record v Atletico than Real by far but just not in the CL.

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henias said:

Partly, yes you are right. Lucho also didnt rest the front 3 as well they were overwhelmed with fatigue.

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serghei said:

I've been following the conversation in bits and pieces, and I can tell this much:

1) There is no best team in the world that doesn't win its domestic league. Let's get that straight from the start. Can't finish on the 4th place in Spain and win the CL and just like magic be the best team in the world even though 3 teams were better than you in Spain alone. There is no way Real Madrid was a better team in 2014 and 2016 than Atletico. 2017 is a completely different story.

A CL win means the best team in the world title when that team wins the league as well, and even then it can be misleading because a succesful CL campaign can have many routes.

2) The media and fans don't view the CL winner as the best team in the world every time. It depends. Ronaldo got the Ballon d'Or after an amazing CL campaign, and Sneijder didn't for getting the treble with Inter in 2010.

3) In general, rationally speaking, the CL is too much dependent on random factors (draws, referee errors, luck in games etc.) in order to make the connection between CL Winner - Best team in the world without fault every single time. The competition is built in such a way that it is going more for drama and entertainment (which go hand in hand with 'surprize' and 'shock' factors), at the expense of establishing a righteous winner every time (basically making sure the best team wins), which could be seen as more 'predictable' by a lot of casual fans. So, if the competition itself is not looking to make the conditions as uniform and as fair as possible for every team involved, then why should I, as a fan, automatically judge, without doubt, that the team that wins the CL is automatically the best? Makes no sense logically.

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ThwiX said:

Great first half. In the second I think he looked too uninspired and careless like rest of the team.

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Stoichkov1 said:

So let me ask you this question: who is the best team in the world in a season where one team wins the CL but fails to win the league at the same time?

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