Luis Suárez

serghei said:

at Barcelona the pressure is higher and the patience is very low due to the expectations that you win big title in each year. Barca/Madrid are very tough conditions to succeed at. At most other big clubs players get credit more easily than at Barcelona/Madrid, and scrutiny is not as tough to deal with.

Click to expand...

Ah... Pressure is so high, that mediocre players (like Roberto, Rakitic, Rafinha, even Mathieu) play for years, just until a luckily better signing doesn't hit the doors?
Patience is so low, that almost eternal patience is provided for the untouchable favorites, regardless their consequently questionable performances and folks at Barca start thinking about their served time, when sporadic whistles send the messages at Camp Nou. I see.

Tough conditions? Lot of money, high wages, long contracts, free cars, impeccable infrastructure, personal staff, charter planes, best hotels, families and wives allowed to be close, children on the pitch, great extra incomes from ads, wide popularity, etc. Are these really tough conditions? Are you sure?

"expectations that you win big title in each year", really? Do working-class fans go to the Camp Nou, and pay rather high amounts, to see games against the worst La Liga opponents, because they want the team win big titles? Are you certain? Wasn't the attandence even better when Barca even lost the league? Isn't it possible that 85.000 people go there to watch enjoyable football?

Do you really think the average local fan always dreams about CL wins, when the team is actually playing half-steam games against weak opponents?
Do you think people and fans are thinking about a CL final while the team plays a classico?

Fans have short memories and even less capabilities to plan ahead. Fans are A-typical "carpe diem" folks with tendencies to concentrate mostly on present games.

Exceptions are in forums and some press-articles, politicians, staff and board members.
BBZ can cite you Barca result and players from 40 years. Be certain that neither Barto, nor Messi can do that, not to mention Abidal and the like.

It's about mentality in the end.

Click to expand...

Which mentality? Servility? Or adherence to luxury life and circumstances?

La Masia players will always have an edge in front of outer talent, because they've been raised within the club and know what to expect, and the type of football they have to produce. So, super-talented players from La Masia will have more chances to make it at Barcelona than outer talents.

Click to expand...

I've already said that: It's a myth. A myth that is great to amalgamate fans, raise the feeling of group-consciousness, aggregate people from different cultures and collectivize feelings and appertain sentiments.

A footballer learns from great coaches, great teammates, formidable opponents, but never from flags, slogans or advertisements.



On the pic is late Ferenc Bene, who was one of my greatest mentors.
He loved Barcelona and always told me "Barca is the best club in Europe". I agree that it is, even 45, years later but not for the reasons most folks believe...

Potroh said:

Ah... Pressure is so high, that mediocre players (like Roberto, Rakitic, Rafinha, even Mathieu) play for years, just until a luckily better signing doesn't hit the doors?
Patience is so low, that almost eternal patience is provided for the untouchable favorites, regardless their consequently questionable performances and folks at Barca start thinking about their served time, when sporadic whistles send the messages at Camp Nou. I see.

Tough conditions? Lot of money, high wages, long contracts, free cars, impeccable infrastructure, personal staff, charter planes, best hotels, families and wives allowed to be close, children on the pitch, great extra incomes from ads, wide popularity, etc. Are these really tough conditions? Are you sure?

"expectations that you win big title in each year", really? Do working-class fans go to the Camp Nou, and pay rather high amounts, to see games against the worst La Liga opponents, because they want the team win big titles? Are you certain? Wasn't the attandence even better when Barca even lost the league? Isn't it possible that 85.000 people go there to watch enjoyable football?

Do you really think the average local fan always dreams about CL wins, when the team is actually playing half-steam games against weak opponents?
Do you think people and fans are thinking about a CL final while the team plays a classico?

Fans have short memories and even less capabilities to plan ahead. Fans are A-typical "carpe diem" folks with tendencies to concentrate mostly on present games.

Exceptions are in forums and some press-articles, politicians, staff and board members.
BBZ can cite you Barca result and players from 40 years. Be certain that neither Barto, nor Messi can do that, not to mention Abidal and the like.



Which mentality? Servility? Or adherence to luxury life and circumstances?



I've already said that: It's a myth. A myth that is great to amalgamate fans, raise the feeling of group-consciousness, aggregate people from different cultures and collectivize feelings and appertain sentiments.

A footballer learns from great coaches, great teammates, formidable opponents, but never from flags, slogans or advertisements.

View attachment 8602

On the pic is late Ferenc Bene, who was one of my greatest mentors.
He loved Barcelona and always told me "Barca is the best club in Europe". I agree that it is, even 45, years later but not for the reasons most folks believe...

Click to expand...

What are the reasons you think Barcelona is the best club? Curious

FinBarcelonafan said:

What are the reasons you think Barcelona is the best club? Curious

Click to expand...

The way Barca plays. Even under EV where the football has been at a historic low entertainment wise we still have great performances few teams in Europe can hit the heights of.

Also the whole oppression of the Catalans and the fighting of that oppression through the football team. It gives it a bigger meaning and is a David beating Goliath story.

FinBarcelonafan said:

What are the reasons you think Barcelona is the best club? Curious

Click to expand...

Why? Because for some interesting and strange reason the club adhered to the type of football that is played with EASE, that is enjoyable, airy, technical, delightful, rejoicing and perhaps it sound really strange: but simply meant for football "hedonists".

Barca have never preferred a dull, heavy, defensive and result-oriented game, and the club have always preferred the greatest attackers, even if some of them did not really flourished at Barca.

Because one can see the best of Mediterranean football traditions at Barca, with a fan-base that is rather similar - likes nice and delightful games, without the sound of crackling bones.

You can see some tough players at Barca time to time, but one can be sure, at the same time, that none of them come to the pitch to brake a leg of the opponent, unlike some other players do.

Just like I mentioned earlier: Barca esteem the best south-American football traditions, which are even capable of enjoying individual skills and wonders, even if those are not always the most productive as far as results go. The joy without rattling teeth...

This are the exact things that seem to be slowly fading away, specially under Valverde...
But another one - hopefully not too far in future - will restore the true Barca mentality.

Less than 50 Goals from being our second most scoring player in history and this forum has still done nothing but bitching how bad he is... Still think he has been a monstrously good player for us and it wasnt his fault that the club didn't provide a decent sub to give him breaks and he played with a knee injuries for long time. Despite that he hasn't stopped scoring ever minus champions leauge where the whole team has been off.

Havesaks said:

Less than 50 Goals from being our second most scoring player in history and this forum has still done nothing but bitching how bad he is... Still think he has been a monstrously good player for us and it wasnt his fault that the club didn't provide a decent sub to give him breaks and he played with a knee injuries for long time. Despite that he hasn't stopped scoring ever minus champions leauge where the whole team has been off.

Click to expand...

He was a great player.

Barcaman said:

He was a great player.

Click to expand...

He is still a good player. Good enough to play as a starter till 2021 as long he has a quality back-up. The disrespect he got the last 2 years isnt reasonable at all. Im sure we wont get a player close his class the next many seasons. A player who scores that much, and can play for Barca is rare.

Havesaks said:

The disrespect he got the last 2 years isnt reasonable at all.

Click to expand...

I doubt people have been disrespectful toward him. I think everyone agrees he is a legend.

But I think everyone with at least one nervus opticus is able to see that he can't run anymore, is heavy and clumsy.
As many pointed out here, he's still great when solving static situations, but his great skills abandon him when he has to do the same while running at the same time.

You give another 1 1/2 years to serve him, but his body suggests otherwise.
You will notice the same effect in 30-40 years, when writing a message will take you minimum twice as long.

It's not disrespect at all, it is the sad effect of the passing time, that all footballers and all humans eventually have to face.

Imagine thinking a guy who didn't score in the last +4years an away CL goal deserves to start for another 2 years for us. Dude also has 3 goals in the past 2 CL seasons. LMAO

Lapi said:

I doubt people have been disrespectful toward him. I think everyone agrees he is a legend.

But I think everyone with at least one nervus opticus is able to see that he can't run anymore, is heavy and clumsy.
As many pointed out here, he's still great when solving static situations, but his great skills abandon him when he has to do the same while running at the same time.

You give another 1 1/2 years to serve him, but his body suggests otherwise.
You will notice the same effect in 30-40 years, when writing a message will take you minimum twice as long.

It's not disrespect at all, it is the sad effect of the passing time, that all footballers and all humans eventually have to face.

Click to expand...

Then you clearly havent read this forum the last 2 years. Majority of the posts have been all critique on how he doesn't score enough cl Goals and making it the only parametre that matters, that he is long passed it and hasnt had the level to play for us for at least 2 years and only reason he has played as starter is due to his friendship with Messi. That he is fat, his face, his personality and so on have been discussed in a clearly negative and toxic manner. The only player who got more shit is Rakitic.

I do agree that his level has dropped a lot, but he has been good enough to be a starter for Barca all the time he has been here.

Lapi said:

I doubt people have been disrespectful toward him. I think everyone agrees he is a legend.

But I think everyone with at least one nervus opticus is able to see that he can't run anymore, is heavy and clumsy.
As many pointed out here, he's still great when solving static situations, but his great skills abandon him when he has to do the same while running at the same time.

You give another 1 1/2 years to serve him, but his body suggests otherwise.
You will notice the same effect in 30-40 years, when writing a message will take you minimum twice as long.

It's not disrespect at all, it is the sad effect of the passing time, that all footballers and all humans eventually have to face.

Click to expand...

Btw Suarez has always been clumsy, even in his prime years. He always looked heavy, his dribling doesn't define him. He has always been the player to fail a simple pass, to make a ridicolous creative one a moment later. It's his postioning, creativity, aggression, diehard will, that made him speciale and he hasn't lost any of that. Yes, he has lost pace, Ball control, and is aging but it's mostly a problem because Messi has aged just as bad Physically and the midfield also was old. And because he played with an injury for a whole year... Because we didn't have any decent back-up for him.

I don't see a reason why he can't fullfill his contract as a starter as long as he is a backup to play 30-40%. In griezmann we maybe have that.

He is still easily top 10 striker in the world for me. Maybe not top 5

Havesaks said:

Then you clearly havent read this forum the last 2 years. Majority of the posts have been all critique on how he doesn't score enough cl Goals and making it the only parametre that matters, that he is long passed it and hasnt had the level to play for us for at least 2 years and only reason he has played as starter is due to his friendship with Messi. That he is fat, his face, his personality and so on have been discussed in a clearly negative and toxic manner. The only player who got more shit is Rakitic.

I do agree that his level has dropped a lot, but he has been good enough to be a starter for Barca all the time he has been here.

Click to expand...

I've been reading the forum diligently. I just did not at all post anything for two years or so.
You are right, there are some toxic messages here, but that's the 'speciality' of this forum. Best is not to pay any attention of those. One can still find good posts and working brains here.

If you agree his level has been dropped considerably, we agree on everything.
About if he is still starter material, depends on the intentions of the club. If they wish to play with the ageing veterans as long as possible, he is definitely a starter.
If the club wanted to look into the future and build a different team, a younger one, then his status becomes questionable.

Havesaks said:

Btw Suarez has always been clumsy, even in his prime years. He always looked heavy, his dribling doesn't define him. He has always been the player to fail a simple pass, to make a ridicolous creative one a moment later. It's his postioning, creativity, aggression, diehard will, that made him speciale and he hasn't lost any of that. Yes, he has lost pace, Ball control, and is aging but it's mostly a problem because Messi has aged just as bad Physically and the midfield also was old. And because he played with an injury for a whole year... Because we didn't have any decent back-up for him.

I don't see a reason why he can't fullfill his contract as a starter as long as he is a backup to play 30-40%. In griezmann we maybe have that.

He is still easily top 10 striker in the world for me. Maybe not top 5

Click to expand...

I agree. The rest depends on the coach, club but don't be too naive, EV will not play Griez as a Suarez sub. His mind is as conservatively wired as Messi's fork, to have his friend beside him all the time.

Lapi said:

I've been reading the forum diligently. I just did not at all post anything for two years or so.
You are right, there are some toxic messages here, but that's the 'speciality' of this forum. Best is not to pay any attention of those. One can still find good posts and working brains here.

If you agree his level has been dropped considerably, we agree on everything.
About if he is still starter material, depends on the intentions of the club. If they wish to play with the ageing veterans as long as possible, he is definitely a starter.
If the club wanted to look into the future and build a different team, a younger one, then his status becomes questionable.

Click to expand...

Yes, I agree that he is far from his best, but at his best he was head and shoulders above any striker or attacking player in the world minus Messi and Ronaldo.
Well it depends on the market imo. And the looks of it, I can't see Someone better who wouldnt be expensive as hell. Thats Why griezmann was bought, he gives us leeway to wait it out for the right player/bet. And for now Suarez is the better option so he is main man.
The market for midfielders and CB is way better, and the need for a least one CB and one CM is bigger than the need of a striker. Imo. So I can't see who people want that is realistic?

I don't agree on that if we are we going with younger players, he needs to go. On the contrary, because having younger players who run, would it easier for him. He shouldnt be the player to make a 40m sprint in contra phase. But the player who wrack havoc in the opposition defence, pops up at the right place, right time, lays the Ball off to other players and generally gets himself into shooting positions because of his deadly finishing. With a midfield which actually runs, and in 4-3-3, he can focus on that, and thats Why he looks better now than last season.
What rubs me the wrong way isnt just those disrespectfull, toxic posters but also better posters don't really seem to take into context why he has "underperformed" the last two years. And underperforming doesn't mean that he was not good enough for Barca.

No back-up player, playing with injuries, older, playing with old and slow teammates... His workload had been doubled since Neymar left. But besiddes that, yes he is maybe 70% the player he was. But that is also the case for Messi btw. And again there are only a habdfull 9s in the world who have performed better than him... Aguero, firmino, salah?, lewandowski... Anyone else?

Lapi said:

I agree. The rest depends on the coach, club but don't be too naive, EV will not play Griez as a Suarez sub. His mind is as conservatively wired as Messi's fork, to have his friend beside him all the time.

Click to expand...

Hmm we Will see. I think Valverde will manage Suarez minutes with griezmann as back-up and fati/dembele on wing. Has happenef yet because he 1) was out for a couple of weeks and is fit to play all the games for now and wasnt elected for national duty 2) wants to make our favorite combo griez-suarez-messi work 3) wants to build a streak of winning after our shaky start before changing stuff. Im pretty sure Griezmann wil get minutes as a striker as soon as it makes sense for us, and with dembele/Fati as wingers, I can also see him work out as a backup striker.