Barca Transfers and Rumors

BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Judoman said:
Like i said, you are way to pesimistic.

You are describing Madrid as some sort of unvincible team. We all know how much luck they had in the past 3 wining campaigns and also
even in this period of last 4-5 years, when they had beter results in CL, we won most Primeras and most head 2 head matches. Even with our
1 man team with obvious and repeating weaknesess.

The thing i miss in your posts are concrete sugestions. Which player would you bring for our midfield/attack and why?
Click to expand...

I wrote on some other topic a few days ago:
In La Liga, there is no "sudden death" danger.
If you lose against Atletico in La Liga, nothing will happen.
You will beat Levante next week, and everything is fine again.
In a CL on the other hand, every match may be your last match.

Also, in La liga, not the best team is a winner, but a team who finds a way to win the highest amount of matches against bottom table teams.
You can lose both El Classicos and all matches against AM and Sevilla and still be a champion, if you won majority of matches against Getafe and Las Palmas.

In a CL, when you lose, you are out right away.

So, imo, a lot of people think that Barca is better than RM since we are winning La ligas.
Imo, that only implies that we are better in terms of consistency and that we are better in winning against crappy teams.
In El classicos, we are more or less 50:50 vs Real.
Against bottom table teams=we are better.
Against big European teams in a CL knockout rounds=Real is way better lately.

So you see, we are better against small teams, they are better against big European teams.
Also, our tactics is good enough against small teams, but sucks year after year (in the same manner) against big European boys.
Their tactics is worse than ours against small teams, but is way better against big teams.

But then, on the other hand, when you remove Messi from our team, maybe our tactics is not that good at all and Messi is just saving our asses against small teams.
There is a high chance (imo) in 3-4 years, when Messi will be gone, that our tactics will prove to be horrible both for La Liga and a CL.
And Real (if they will build a team in a similar way as today), they will start to dominate both La liga and a CL.

khaled_a_d said:
Larsson is as tall as Paco (and Griezmann),R10 & as tall as Suarez and Dembele.
And we used defenders and midfielders mostly when we uses crosses, even since Rijkaard days
Click to expand...

Ronaldinho had decent height and awesome strength.
So, he could have scored both with feet and head.
Etoo, a fast attacker, yet tall enough and good in the air.
Larsson, shorter, but insanely good in the air (something like Umtiti).
Also, Larsson scored like 100 header goals for Celtic before Barca.

Further, one thing that "bothers" me, look how our style has changed post Pep.
This is in Rijkaard's days, even young Messi is there.
But we didn't hesitate to play multi-dimensional football.
We played shortpasses, solo actions, through balls, crosses, long balls, goals after corners.
Only in this short video, Larsson scored a few header goals, and also, we had lots of wing actions WITH ACTUAL CROSSES, where a cross ended either as a header (and a goal), or a cross ended as a goal with feet.
Imo, we looked way more all-round in attack back then and way closer to Real's current versatility.
On the other hand, at Barca, during and after Pep, we turned to shorter players, we forbid crosses, long balls and crosses after corners.
We also almost forbid long range shots (unless if your name is Messi).
Our tactics turned into some strange version of one-dimensional football where we play only shortpasses and through balls, plus, every single ball needs to be passed to Messi.
Anyway, good old days when Barca used some crosses, and scored after them:
 
J

Judoman

Senior Member
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

I don t think barca has a better team, but we did managed to get lots of trophies. You are outright downplaying La liga in terms
of importance. If you want to win La liga you have to win against top spanish teams. Period. It s not just Levantes and Gironas.
I asked you this in other thread, but here we go again, if CL>demestick league by defoult, than why has Madrid sacked
2 coaches in resent history, who managed to win CL, but failed at La liga? Another issue, if they fail to win this year CL, what does that say
about their stacked team? There are no certainties in sport.

Anyway, It s a fact, that Madrid had much better transfer policy in the past years. They bought Modric+Kroos cheap and few backups/investments for the future. This has
been their core + CR.

I would like to read something concrete from you. not just generalizations and nostalgic essays. We can t just change the whole team, we have to work with what we have.
 
BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Judoman said:
[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION]

I don t think barca has a better team, but we did managed to get lots of trophies. You are outright downplaying La liga in terms
of importance. If you want to win La liga you have to win against top spanish teams. Period. It s not just Levantes and Gironas.
I asked you this in other thread, but here we go again, if CL>demestick league by defoult, than why has Madrid sacked
2 coaches in resent history, who managed to win CL, but failed at La liga? Another issue, if they fail to win this year CL, what does that say
about their stacked team? There are no certainties in sport.

Anyway, It s a fact, that Madrid had much better transfer policy in the past years. They bought Modric+Kroos cheap and few backups/investments for the future. This has
been their core + CR.

I would like to read something concrete from you. not just generalizations and nostalgic essays. We can t just change the whole team, we have to work with what we have.
Click to expand...

Concrete?
Well, if I were a director or something, I would sell: Gomes, Denis, Paco, probably Rafinha, Samper, Paco, Deulofeu, for the beginning. Luis can go also.
I am not too sentimental towards key players who are not on their prime, so I would let Iniesta to China, or if he would stay here, he would play 10-15 minutes per match.
He wouldn't be a starter.
Also, a current Busi is more of a burden for a team.
He can play only in a 433 and he sucks in all other formations.

In the middle, I would play: Coutinho-a stronger Cm (for example Pogba from guys who is currently available) and a Cdm.
If Busi can play a Cdm, fine.
If not, well, he is in his last years.
I wouldn't mind turning Arthur or some other guys into a new gen Cdm, with different skills than Busi and who could play in 2-3 different formations, not only in a 433.

In attack, we are screwed until we turn a new page.
Messi-Griezmann-Dembele will lack width, and we can play only shortpasses and throughballs.
What would I do? Well, either NOT buying Griezz and buying some all-round forward. Or buying Griezz and selling Dembele and buying an allround forward.

On the other hand, what our board will do? They will buy Griezz, we will play with Griezz, false 9 Messi and Dembele and we will be neutralized in a CL, as always.
Then in 3-4 years, when Messi will retire, they will rebuild a team and probably THEN we will see a different attacking trio, when even the board will turn a new page.

So, you see, I would only buy 1 new physical Cm, I would give Arthur chance as a Cdm and I would need 1 allround Cf.
But that would require selling of Dembele or not buying Griezz, what our board won't do (nor our fans who are sentimental and not open for huge football-manager sales, haha).

So, even with only 1 new strong physical CM and 1 Cf like Icardi, Lewa, Benzema, we would get:
1. more muscles in midfield
2. more muscles in attack
3. different options in attack: shortpasses, througballs and NEW one: crosses aimed at a new Cf who can actually play with feet and score with head, when we can't break down through the middle (Real Madrid's style)

As I said, or you can only: NOT buy Griezz, buy a allround Cf and play Messi-new guy-Dembele.
Even though, Messi will probably disrupt a formation again, since he wants to play as a silent Cdm who starts a build up in our own half, lol.

So, for the beginning, it is not as if I would want to buy 10 new players.
Even with 2 players aged 25-28 with high quality, you could change our team and get a lot of muscles, different attacking options, and still keep tons of technique and Barca's DNA.
 
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DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
Never thought I would see the day [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] would root for the signing of Pogba. I still find it hard to believe.

While you're at it, take a look at Sergej Milinkovic-Savic that plays for Lazio.
 
J

Judoman

Senior Member
OK, now we are getting somewhere.

I agree about sell offs with 1 exception. If we get Griezmann, Suarez will probably not be a first 11 player. At least i hope so. So Instead of Paco, i would
sell him due to his wages. If a good offer is received for Paco i would also sell him, but we would need a replacement than. I would also sell one of Raki/Paulinho. Or both.

I also agree on your midfield notions. I think the search for new Xavi has to stop right now. We need to adjust to the reality. I would move Busi to CM and see what he does there.
New guy should be someone fast with high work rate. I m pondering how Kante would look behind Busi-Coutinho with his insane work etics and stamina.

The main and by far most important goal in the summer transfer window is to sort out the midfield in terms of creativity and speed.
Coutinho, Alena, Busi, Arthur, Rakitic/New guy, Paulinho/New guy

In attack we have leo. He wont play winger pos. and even if coach manage to stick him there, he will drift in the midlle. I think, the pragmatic solution is to put him back to false 9 role, where
he isn t defensive liability and where he can score 50+ goals per year with ease. As long as we have him classic CF is not a good option, because it leads to other problems.
Also, there is a big difference betwen Barca with xavi-iniesta and todays barca in terms of attack options from midfield with Coutinho there.
I certanly wouldn t sell Dembele, i still think he will be a superstar. Him on one side with his one on one capability will make things easier. Also one LW/FW is needed.
 
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D

Donatello

Active member
We all know Mourinho is interested in Gomes for a long time. So, what about trading Andre Gomes + cash (40-60M) for pogba??

He will definitely be an improvement over gomes, may well become world class. He has good technique & he provides us the much needed physicality as well. And he can sell shirts just like Ney, so a huge marketable player as well.

I am not pogba fanboy. I am just in favor of giving him a chance, realizing all the upsides compared to downsides if this transfer happens.

If things don't go as planned we can still sell him for 60% - 75% money we spent on him.
 
A

ASordidGod

New member
Judoman said:
OK, now we are getting somewhere.

I agree about sell offs with 1 exception. If we get Griezmann, Suarez will probably not be a first 11 player. At least i hope so. So Instead of Paco, i would
sell him due to his wages. If a good offer is received for Paco i would also sell him, but we would need a replacement than. I would also sell one of Raki/Paulinho. Or both.

I also agree on your midfield notions. I think the search for new Xavi has to stop right now. We need to adjust to the reality. I would move Busi to CM and see what he does there.
New guy should be someone fast with high work rate. I m pondering how Kante would look behind Busi-Coutinho with his insane work etics and stamina.

The main and by far most important goal in the summer transfer window is to sort out the midfield in terms of creativity and speed.
Coutinho, Alena, Busi, Arthur, Rakitic/New guy, Paulinho/New guy

In attack we have leo. He wont play winger pos. and even if coach manage to stick him there, he will drift in the midlle. I think, the pragmatic solution is to put him back to false 9 role, where
he isn t defensive liability and where he can score 50+ goals per year with ease. As long as we have him classic CF is not a good option, because it leads to other problems.
Also, there is a big difference betwen Barca with xavi-iniesta and todays barca in terms of attack options from midfield with Coutinho there.
I certanly wouldn t sell Dembele, i still think he will be a superstar. Him on one side with his one on one capability will make things easier. Also one LW/FW is needed.
Click to expand...

Busquets is too slow to play CM: you can see in our 442 that the higher up he plays the more uncomfortable he looks, and the more he's caught on break. Also, no offence, but what's the point of buying a player like Kante who is all energy/work rate, and then having him sit in def mid? Imo that mid MIGHT work, but only if you swap Kante and Busquets. But even then we're left with Coutinho, who's rarely played there and is entirely unproven. Personally I'd like to see him given a chance there, but with Valverde playing safe that seems unlikely.
 
J

Judoman

Senior Member
ASordidGod said:
Busquets is too slow to play CM: you can see in our 442 that the higher up he plays the more uncomfortable he looks, and the more he's caught on break. Also, no offence, but what's the point of buying a player like Kante who is all energy/work rate, and then having him sit in def mid? Imo that mid MIGHT work, but only if you swap Kante and Busquets. But even then we're left with Coutinho, who's rarely played there and is entirely unproven. Personally I'd like to see him given a chance there, but with Valverde playing safe that seems unlikely.
Click to expand...

Well, Xavi was no rocket was he? But he compensated for it with his technical skills. I think Busi s lack of speed would be less of an issue with faster CM/DM near/behind him.
I m not married to Kante, it s only an idea. If we r gona play higher up the pitch, the danger of counter attacks increases. We will need speed.

Also, with Pogba i feel we would have 2 attack oriented CM with Busi behind for cover. Balance vise it doesn t strike me as an ideal setup.
Although Pogba in theory is the perfect B2B for Barca. His issue is mental one, similar to Neymar s, but to the lesser extent.
 
te amo barca

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
Donatello said:
We all know Mourinho is interested in Gomes for a long time. So, what about trading Andre Gomes + cash (40-60M) for pogba??

He will definitely be an improvement over gomes, may well become world class. He has good technique & he provides us the much needed physicality as well. And he can sell shirts just like Ney, so a huge marketable player as well.

I am not pogba fanboy. I am just in favor of giving him a chance, realizing all the upsides compared to downsides if this transfer happens.

If things don't go as planned we can still sell him for 60% - 75% money we spent on him.
Click to expand...

Pogba won't go for less than 160m after Neymar's transfer.
 
Givenchy

Givenchy

Senior Member
Donatello said:
We all know Mourinho is interested in Gomes for a long time. So, what about trading Andre Gomes + cash (40-60M) for pogba??

He will definitely be an improvement over gomes, may well become world class. He has good technique & he provides us the much needed physicality as well. And he can sell shirts just like Ney, so a huge marketable player as well.

I am not pogba fanboy. I am just in favor of giving him a chance, realizing all the upsides compared to downsides if this transfer happens.

If things don't go as planned we can still sell him for 60% - 75% money we spent on him.
Click to expand...

while I think Moureen would totally be stupid enough to do that I doubt the higher ups at United would be :lol:

he cannot sell shirts like Neymar, hes not even the face of France, nowhere near as marketable. He has talent but hes 25 now, the 'buying potential' excuse is gone. Pogba has had a midfield being built around him and he still doesn't produce consistently in the big games, latest City game the exception. I don't see Barca or Madrid wanting him at this stage so PSG is more likely his destination.. plus his agent is poison, will probably have an Ibra style career moving from top club to top club so Raiola can rake in the $$$
 
B

Barcilliant

Senior Member
BBZ8800 said:
Why going into extremes with "towering forwards"?
Currently we have Messi, and we will have Griezmann in attack.
Forget about any crosses or headers.

On the other hand, remember the days when we had Ronaldinho/Etoo/Larsson in attack.
If we couldn't score through the ground ground, you could always try a cross or two.
Henry, Ibra, Kluivert, Rivaldo.
Those are not towering forwards, those are just players who can score in more ways than one-dimensional Barca's attackers.
Benzema and Lewa from current players, for example.

About crosses, they are in general less effective than shortpasses, but...
Look at this:
When Barca plays in a CL, ALL teams park 2 buses around their box with 4+4 or 5+5 players.
They crowd the middle around the box and they leave flanks semi-vulnerable.
We try to play through the middle and we usually can't do anything through the middle against big CL teams.
When we try to play through flanks: our players won't cross since nobody in the middle can win an arial duel.
So, our only attacking options are:
1. pass around the box till death, which usually doesn't work after 2011' (AM, AM, Juve, Psg, Roma, Bayern).
2. try a 1 vs 1 dribble on wings and then make a low cross or a pass to Messi. Or just pass the ball back to midfielders
Basically, this is our gameplan in a CL:
1. through the middle
2. or a solo action (without a cross) on wings

Now, let's see what Real is doing:
1. they can play shortpasses the same as we do, with their midfield players
2. if they can't break through the middle, do you know what they will do?
They will cross.
Do you know why?
Because teams are defending against them in the same way as against us. They park 2 buses around the box and they leave flanks semi-vulnerable.
And then, RM's players actually DO CROSS and they are creating a mess in the middle.
Why?
1. because all defenders are around the box
2. their flanks are vulnerable

And do you know what happens also then?
= when RM tries a few crosses, then the opponents can't park buses ONLY around the box, because RM will kill them on crosses for CR7, Benzema and Bale.
And then, the opponents need to spread their defense and the opponents are forced to "send" more players to flanks to prevent deadly crosses.
And do you know what happens then?
= the opponent's defenders are spread both at flanks and in the middle and then there is LESS defenders in the middle around the box.
And what happens then?
= Modric, Isco, Kroos and other guys have way more free space in the middle (compared to Barca's midfield) and then Real can both:
1. kill you through the middle with shortpasses around the box and create a deadly 1 vs 1
2. or they can kill you with crosses for CR7 and Benz

So, since RM has a few DIFFERENT attacking options, they are FORCING the opponents to spread their defense and then there is more free space for RM's players in the middle (and less defenders).
And again, if their opponents will park the bus in the middle, RM will kill them with crosses.
So, whatever the opponent does, Real has the answer and a very lethal solution.

Now, let's go back to Barca in a CL against big physical teams:
1. we will pass around the box and hit the wall all the time
2. we won't do absolutely nothing on flanks and we won't force the opponents to spread their defense, which would actually leave more space for Messi in the middle

Remember how Lucho in 2015' FORCED the opponents to open with giving them possession?
So, he gave them possession and then killed them on counters (once when they have opened themselves do to having possession).
On the other hand, if YOU have a possession all the time (like Pep), you can't kill the opponent on counters since the opponent will park 2 buses around their box.

Real is doing a similar trick, only with wings.

This is the answer why are all teams in a CL having way bigger problems with RM and why RM is able to break any defense.

On the other hand, remember our last 6 CL defeats in knockout rounds, away games:
2012: Chelsea 0:1
2013: Bayern 0:4
2014: Atletico 0:1
2016: Atletico 0:2
2017: Juve 0:3
2018: Roma 0:3

You see, "a controlling midfielder" won't help too much if we'll just attack through the middle, like idiots and like a one trick pony.
Our tactics and the way how we are buying new players have waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay deeper problems.
Click to expand...

VERY GOOD POINTS!

the Xavi Iniesta Era is OVER. These players cannot be replaced or replicated. Looking for a new Xavi and Iniesta is a stupid obsession which we need to overcome. Veratti is close in style but mentally weak.

We need to reinvent the midfield and rethink about Busquets also. He was perfect when he had Xavi and Iniesta because they brought so much control to our game. Now he looks inconsistent and lost, confused.

We need some more grunt and bite in midfield. Remember Van Bommel and Edmilson. Not great players but they brought what was required. Some skill, energy and strength to the midfield. A player like Arturo Vidal would have been perfect. Even Casemiro would have been good. We need an enforcer who knows how to break up play and physically dominate the midfield against top level cl teams.
 
B

Barcilliant

Senior Member
People are talking about players but to me the most important issue is the manager. A manager who has. A clear idea of what he wants will implement a system and bring the right players for it.


If Valverde had a good track record with big clubs I'd give him another season. However he doesn't and the Roma debacle exposed him and the team. We need to get someone like Heynkes or Allegri. Please no more Barca DNA managers.
 
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