Agreed way too much hope is being placed in these youth players. All very well having promising youngsters but fielding half a teams worth won’t end well as has been proven time and again. Need a solid first team in place before we start plugging holes with under 20s players.
Barca Transfers and Rumors
- Thread starter Barcaman
- Start date
We havent signed any under 20 year old players. When you are 24, like Yerry Mina will be in the summer, you are not a youth player. We have people in here who consider 25 year old players as "kids". Its really something else. Our team consists of plenty of players around 30 years or older including Messi, Pique, Iniesta, Busquets, Suarez and others. People who are worried about our team consisting of only 20 year olds do not have to worry.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
He is basically talking about replacing old Mascherano, old non used Vermaelen and Gomes/Rakitic/Denis depending on how good Arthur is.
So while I understand your concern (no need to repeat it) I don't think it will be that big of an issue. Next season Pique will be 31, Umtiti 25 & Mina 24. That is one senior and two in middle of their careers with only one youngster. Arthur will be replacing another young player most probably unless he is really good. And I don't think he meant those will be our only signings.
Perhaps we should sign proven experienced Arsenal players instead, like Song, Cesc, Hleb and Vermaelen? That way we know we will get quality and dont have to worry about testing. They will immediately hit the ground running.
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khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Officially all guys from SA who live in Spain for 2 years can get citizenship in 2 years, but I think due to the fact that definition of the year usually mean to stay 11 months of the year in Spain -which is impossible for any player- and the paper work it usually takes around 4 years to get it sorted (I am guessing based on past incidence btw) so his wife being Spanish won't be a factor anyway
BBZ8800
Senior Member
Or proven players who actually won some titles (national championships, Champions league, Uefa Cup, NT titles, or at least played lots of semis and finals in those competitions)?
Arsenal's players usually don't fit any of those criterias, since the only positive thing about Arsenal is that they play nice (oh, the irony regarding some topics from our forum) and they can't win anything for years.
Older player alone doesn't mean anything if he isn't a natural born winner, or an actual winner.
So, in short:
1. I don't like young unproven players
2. but neither oldies who are proven losers
If you buy losers, you will turn into a loser also.
Imo, we should buy 24-28 years old "winners" and only insane youths on whom we are willing to bet all in and develop them, no matter what.
Those are not players of level of Paco, Denis, Gomes, Digne, Deulofeu etc.
When you buy someone like Dembele, it is worth to risk for some time and even suffer.
When you buy players like Denis, Gomes and Paco=give them a few chances. If they'll prove their worth fast=awesome, keep them.
If they struggle or are showing huge signs of being average for Barca's standards=well, tell them: good luck in finding a new job, boys. Sorry.
Several of those Arsenal players had actually won more than Luis Suarez...So by this logic, Suarez couldnt be signed either.
Yes, lets only try to sign unavailable players that will cost 150m euros+. And from top teams in England and Spain only. Not from teams like Liverpool, Villarreal, Bilbao etc because those teams dont win any championships or CLs. That makes sense.
Instead of putting every player in those boxes of yours, why not treat players as individuals? Not every player who is younger than 25 is a new Halilovic. Not every so-called proven old player is a new Ibra or Arda Turan just because their club won some titles.
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Barcilliant
Senior Member
Get a promising young striker or veteran on loan.
Buy Tag, Arthur and Goretzka.
That's 90 million total.
Buy Tag, Arthur and Goretzka.
That's 90 million total.
BBZ8800
Senior Member
I told you 100s times.
Write RIGHT NOW 10 players for whom you think that they are "real deals" currently and that it is a no brainer currently to buy them.
I will name a few, which I guess that you and majority guys consider as no brainers for Barca:
Goretzka, Arthur, Mina, Lemar etc
Let's see what will happen with those guys in 2 years and which level they will reach and whether ANY of them will EVER reach a level of a starter material for Barca (none of them will imo).
One more recent example: 6 Months ago, people were writing: Marlon this, Marlon that.
Another guy with only a few senior matches in his career and people seriously considered him as a future Barca's material.
Of course that his loan spell at Nice is not doing well currently, lol. And NO, that is NOT because we have sent him into a wrong league or into a wrong club.
That is because he was just a risky buy, with a low chance for succeeding. His quality is extremely questionable and his senior football experience and European experience is zero.
If I had write this 6 Months or wrote a bad thing about Marlon or questioned his abilities, 20 guys here would jump, they would write insults etc.
How dare you to question a future gem Marlon, man? You don't know anything about football, man etc
But guys here are jumping on a hype and on a hope that more or less any young players out there will make it here, and as if ANY player out there is better than our current players, lol.
You can read some posts here: buy Goretzka, he will be a starter right away (lol).
Buy Arthur, he will be a starter right away, he is better than all players except Iniesta and Busi (fucking lol). A guy plays in a Brasilian league which was always known for "funky" defending and not too much tactical discipline, pressure etc and you have million seconds to receive the ball, look at your teammates and decide what you will do with it. So, majority of playmakers or attackers from a Brasilian league may look like gems, while they are quite average and they will get exposed easily on European soil with better defenders and with a more tactical discipline.
But hey, let's buy EVERYONE, Mina, Goretzka, Arthur (and even a 100M Lemar who is not fit for our formation), since ALL of them are better than all of our players.
Newsflash: no matter how horrible are Raki, Pique and guys, they are million light years infront of these guys. They know our club, they know our system, they have chemistry, they have experience.
They have more than 30 senior matches in their feet, lol.
But, ignore my posts, feel free to dream about any youngster out there as a no brainer and blame our stupid board for everything.
Here you go, last 2-2 and a half years:
Halil, Denis, Gomes, Paco, Digne, Deulofeu, Marlon (and only Umtiti made it here).
Feel free to add tons of new names (under failed) in a first category.
Some of you will never learn that it is not that easy and simple and how low is a success rate with those young, semiproven players.
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Sorin
Well-known member
Don t know why Digne is always listed on not good enough players lists. What now, we should buy Alex Sandro and the likes to warm the bench? Yeah, good luck convincing players of that calibre to come here for that. Should also fork 50 big ones on them. Digne is fine as a sub to Alba.
M
MessiCam
Guest
I don't know why you keep posting this sort of thing...
I can easily make an argument for many failed more experienced players too...
Hleb, Maxwell, Adriano, Fabregas, Song, Matheiu, Rakitic, Douglas, Arda, Vidal, Vermaelen, Ibra...
Many of them at great expense at the time.
Barcelona have actually done well in terms of young signings over the years as well as promotions.
Pique, Alexis, Thiago, Alba, Neymar, MaTS, Umtiti, Digne and I have little doubt that Dembele is going to set the world alight too.
And they didn't cost an arm and a leg, well apart from Dembele...
Sure you will find failures, many failures in both approaches but you're acting like these so called world class signings are guaranteed success here. You couldn't be more wrong...
I'm also not advocating that Barcelona must sign all youngsters... I'm saying be smart in your signings by mixing experience with youth and if you can, promote from within. 150 Million for a 26 year old Coutinho is not the answer. Rather get a promising young player for midfield that fits the Barcelona mould and Griezmann for 100 Million... As an example.
And, lol, no Rakitic is not a million light years ahead of anyone. He may know the club but he struggles with our system and the only chemistry he has with the front men is radioactive. Messi has already gotten frustrated a few times. I'm just waiting for him to go nuclear...
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Catta
Senior Member
Hleb - failure
Maxwell - success (great squad player, was bought only for 4 mil €)
Adriano - success (also a great squad player until injuries in his later Barca years destroyed him)
Fabregas - partly success (he did not fit the system but still produced good numbers and was sold without a loss)
Song - failure
Mathieu - success (he was great for one season and was a key part of the team that won a treble)
Rakitic - partly success (was great in the second half of the treble season, and was cheap only 18 mil €, can still be sold for profit)
Douglas - failure (but he was not an experienced player)
Arda - failure
Vidal - partly failure (solid squad player)
Vermaelen - failure (failure only because of his injuries)
Zlatan - failure
M
MessiCam
Guest
To add to my earlier post. I couldn’t type what I wanted to because I had to sort out some rather urgent stuff. BBZ8800 keeps harping on about how these young players turn out to be failures but I am going to call him out again for someone who claims that have watched Barcelona for a long period of time.
Does anyone here remember Iniesta and Xavi’s early seasons? Those prior to the 2008/09 season? They were continually overrun by strong opposition, Deco included, but most of all Rijkaard stuck with them. Iniesta made plenty substitute appearances and was played in various midfield and attack positions you’d be excused for thinking he was a prostitute... It was only in the 2008/09 season that everything started to click. It took these young players schooled in the Barça philosophy 4 years to learn their trade at the highest level but it took coaches willing to invest in them that made it happen.
It’s easy to say only 1 out of 10 young players will be successful in the long run without looking at the more inticrate stuff.
The reason I like Denis so much is because I see many of the qualities that the young Iniesta possessed. Only difference is that the recent coaches have been unwilling to give him a serious run like Rijkaard did for Iniesta in particular. They’re too busy keeping their jobs rather than actually doing their jobs.
Young players as well as experienced players are signed and/or promoted for the qualities they possess but those qualities don’t guarantee success at a club like Barça where everything is done differently and everybody is held to a different standard.
I’ve now watched some of Arthur’s games instead of YouTube clips and I can say without doubt that of all the transfer rumours thus far he is by some distance the most promising of the lot. Very raw yes but he has qualities far more suited to the type of football we play than Rakitic. Whether he makes it here or not is different matter entirely but the same goes for your Coutinho and Griezmann types.
Short-termism is a very real problem at the current Barcelona.
Does anyone here remember Iniesta and Xavi’s early seasons? Those prior to the 2008/09 season? They were continually overrun by strong opposition, Deco included, but most of all Rijkaard stuck with them. Iniesta made plenty substitute appearances and was played in various midfield and attack positions you’d be excused for thinking he was a prostitute... It was only in the 2008/09 season that everything started to click. It took these young players schooled in the Barça philosophy 4 years to learn their trade at the highest level but it took coaches willing to invest in them that made it happen.
It’s easy to say only 1 out of 10 young players will be successful in the long run without looking at the more inticrate stuff.
The reason I like Denis so much is because I see many of the qualities that the young Iniesta possessed. Only difference is that the recent coaches have been unwilling to give him a serious run like Rijkaard did for Iniesta in particular. They’re too busy keeping their jobs rather than actually doing their jobs.
Young players as well as experienced players are signed and/or promoted for the qualities they possess but those qualities don’t guarantee success at a club like Barça where everything is done differently and everybody is held to a different standard.
I’ve now watched some of Arthur’s games instead of YouTube clips and I can say without doubt that of all the transfer rumours thus far he is by some distance the most promising of the lot. Very raw yes but he has qualities far more suited to the type of football we play than Rakitic. Whether he makes it here or not is different matter entirely but the same goes for your Coutinho and Griezmann types.
Short-termism is a very real problem at the current Barcelona.
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