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Thread: Champions League 2016/17

  1. #1051
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    Cule For Life's Avatar
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    Not one for conspiracy theories, but I'd also add this after every CL game we played away game in La Liga (6 games), while RM only played 1 away V Esponyol who usually bend over for them anyways then they played 5 at home. Atletico played 1 home and 5 away.

  2. #1052
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cule For Life View Post
    Not one for conspiracy theories, but I'd also add this after every CL game we played away game in La Liga (6 games), while RM only played 1 away V Esponyol who usually bend over for them anyways then they played 5 at home. Atletico played 1 home and 5 away.
    These things are interesting subtle touches that almost no one sees, yet they put R. Madrid in much better position. Add that to many other pro-Madrid things in the league and country as a whole.
    That`s why I feel so much joy when Barca wins a domestic title or a CL in front of Madrid. It just feels like the triumph of justice.

  3. #1053
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    Quote Originally Posted by kilian View Post
    These things are interesting subtle touches that almost no one sees, yet they put R. Madrid in much better position. Add that to many other pro-Madrid things in the league and country as a whole.
    That`s why I feel so much joy when Barca wins a domestic title or a CL in front of Madrid. It just feels like the triumph of justice.
    Same. At every turn, RM is favoured. I believe 9/11 happened and we walked on the moon, but i'll never believe there wasn't some massive collusions to favour RM in the Floper era.

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    >2016

    >Expecting anyone other than ronaldo to win when he won a CL

    It doesn't matter how badly he played, Ronaldo + CL = Ballon d'or just as surely as 1 + 1 = 2. He can literally score an own goal every game but if he wins the CL he wins the Ballon d'or.

    Conspiracy, stupidity, whatever. It's just how it goes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lelouch vi Britannia
    Attention, entire world. Hear my proclamation. I am Lelouch vi Britannia, emperor of the Holy Britannian Empire and your only ruler.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gareth Bale
    The team that scores more goals will win el clasico.

  6. #1056
    Improvin' Perfection!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    It is weird.
    Luck paired with semi-rigged draws where they are trying to get all top teams into last 8.

    Someone will ask probably: but why is then Barca getting tough opponents in the last 16?
    Well:
    Uefa could be bored with Barca winning titles in 2006, 2009, 2011 and 2015.
    Last 11 years:
    Barca 4 titles
    Real 2
    Bayern 1
    Man Utd 1
    Chelsea 1
    Milan 1
    Inter 1
    -- so, on one hand, as I have said above, imo, it is NOT in Uefa's interest for Barca to rule the Europe for 10-20 years. We, as Barca's fans would like that, but my theory is that Uefa wants MORE top teams interchanging at top, like: Barca, Bayern, Real, English team, Barca, Italian team, Bayern, Real, English team etc
    = all top countries would get some CL wins, more people would be interested in watching matches in all top 4-5 leagues, more top teams would get better sponsor deals, more money, more rivalry, more rivalry in media and social media (Barca vs Real, Messi vs CR7, Spanish teams vs Premier league etc)

    So, again, on one hand, I could agree with you that ONLY Barca is punished and that we are getting tougher draws because Uefa doesn't want to see us on top too often because they want more top teams to interchange.



    Ok, but still. Is he richer and more powerful than owners of City, Psg, Bayern?

    If that is the truth, Real will rule the world and a CL in the next 20 years in a row.

    Also, another question: Real was also powerful and rich in 00's, with all Galacticos.
    If Uefa wants ONLY Real Madrid to rule the world, HOW COME that Real has zero CLs from 2002 to 2014 then?
    So, it makes zero sense.
    Why would Uefa suddenly decide in 2014 that RM will get a help and that RM will be the owner of Cls for the next 10 years?

    Also, Flo is a president since 2009.
    He won a CL in his 5th and 7th season.
    He was rich and dirty already in 2009/10, and RM was a popular and influental club back then. Plus, they already had all sponsors and a CR7.
    Then why Uefa waited 5 years to finally "help" them to win 1 trophy?

    It doesn't make sense.

    I still think that football (both Champions league, World cups and Euros) works this way:
    1. Fifa/Uefa will help to big NT teams to some extent, like:
    -- Brasil, Germany, Italy, France, England NT teams (plus to a host nation)=will always get a help from referees (if needed) in GROUP STAGE, so that ALL big teams can reach knockout rounds (also, in qualifying matches against weaker NT teams, if needed)
    -- but, but, but... FIFA will give you only 50% of help. So, if you struggle, you will get 1-2 penalties, and the opponent will get a red card to push your key match into a 2:1 win for you
    -- but if you totally suck and you are losing 0:3, 0:3, 0:3 in all 3 group stage matches, there is nothing what FIFA can do. You suck, and you will get knocked out

    The same principle is applied in 1/8 of world cups (help to top teams), and then after that in quarters and semis, help from referees for top teams drops, let's say from 50% to 25% and 10%.
    So, you will get a help from FIFA in group stage and 1/8, but after that, it is more or less: we (FIFA) got what we wanted (all top teams in last 8 or last 4=aka, a lot of money, a lot of interest, a lot of viewers and interesting matches), and now you (teams) can "kill eachother" and let the best team win (we, FIFA, don't care anymore).

    2. the same works in a CL
    -- in group stage, a draw is totally rigged so that ALL top teams can go through
    -- also, in group stage matches, Barca, RM, Bayern usually won't need any help. But if they'll get in a danger of getting knocked out already in a group stage, UEFA will help them and Barca/RM/Bayern will surely get some penalties/red cards for the opponents in key matches, just to avoid any complications
    -- so, if Barca/RM/Bayern can win on their own (which they should), Uefa won't intervene, everything will be 100% clear and fair
    -- but if they do get in troubles, Uefa will try to help
    -- also, if RM or Barca would be losing all matches in group stage by 0:3, again=well, nobody (not even Uefa) can help you then

    Then, when a 1/8 draw comes, Uefa will again try to get Barca, RM, Bayern and some English teams into a last 8.
    If possible, they will avoid big matches in 1/8 (Psg and Arsenal are not yet powerhouses, so Barca:Psg and Bayern:Arsenal are not risky matches).
    If they can't avoid 1-2 big matches, they will usually give a tougher (but passable) opponent to Barca (since Barca will win against majority of teams, plus if they knockout Barca, it isn't that big deal, since Barca won too much in previous years).
    Also, if needed, Barca/RM/Bayern will get a slight push from refs in 1/8 if something is not going well.

    In a draw for quarters, it is less possible to rig things, so we will have more big matches there.

    About top3 teams, ONLY Barca had very tough draws in recent 5 years.
    RM had easy draw, but Bayern also had passable opponents.

    So, let's say that Uefa got pissed off by Barca in 2011, when we won titles in 2006, 2009 and 2011, and when we looked too dangerous and too good (and Messi had 10 years of possible domination infront of him).
    Imo, there is some logic that Uefa THEN started to hate on Barca and started to help to RM and Bayern.

    Bayern:
    2016: Juventus, Benfica (lol), Atletico (KO)
    2015: Shakhtar (lol), Porto (lol), Barca (KO)
    2014: Arsenal (meh), Man Utd (meh), RM (KO)
    2013: Arsenal (meh), Juventus (meh back then), Barca, Borussia
    2012: Basel (lel), Marseille (lol), Real, Chelsea (KO)

    -- so, if a draw is semi-rigged in 1/8 and 1/4 (and in semis you can't do too much regarding rigging matches), out of 10 opponents in 1/8 and 1/4 for Bayern in the last 5 years:
    -- weak: Basel, Olympique, Shakthtar, Benfica, Porto
    -- average: Arsenal, Arsenal, Man Utd
    -- strong: Juventus (not that strong in 2013), Juventus 2016

    -- Bayern had 2 strong opponents, 3 average opponents and 5 weak opponents in the last 5 years
    (We can never play against crappy teams like Shakhtar, Basel and similar)

    Barca:
    2016: Arsenal, Atletico
    2015: City, Psg, Bayern, Juventus
    2014: City, Atletico
    2013: Milan, Psg, Bayern
    2012: Leverkusen, Milan, Chelsea

    Barca:
    -- weak: Leverkusen
    -- average: Milan, Milan, Psg, Psg, City, City, Arsenal
    -- strong: Atletico, Atletico

    Barca had 1 weak opponent, 7 avarage to very good opponents, and 2 strong opponents (Atletico).

    Real:
    2016: Roma, Wolfsburg, City, Atletico
    2015: Schalke, Atletico, Juventus
    2014: Schalke, Borussia, Bayern, Atletico
    2013: Man Utd, Galatasaray, Borussia
    2012: Cska (wtf), Apoel (wtf), Bayern

    -- weak: Cska, Apoel, Galatasaray, Schalke, Schalke, Wolfsburg
    -- average: Man Utd, Borussia, Roma
    -- strong: Atletico

    So, Real had the easiest draw out of Barca/RM/Bayern.
    BUT, Bayern (imo) also had quite an easy job in 1/8 and 1/4 in the last 5 years.

    Further, to strengthen my theory how Uefa isn't actually helping ONLY to Real, BUT they are HATING on Barca because we won too many titles (and Uefa wants new champions), so Uefa started to "push" RM and Bayern with easier draws.

    Before 2011, when Uefa (imo) got pissed at us (after 2006, 2009 and 2011's title), these are RM's draw before 2012:
    Real Madrid, ALL 1/8 opponents:
    2011: Lyon (French champion for years like Psg today)
    2010: Lyon (KO)
    2009: Liverpool (KO)
    2008: Roma (KO)
    2007: Bayern (KO)
    2006: Arsenal (KO)
    2005: Juventus (KO)
    2004: Bayern
    2003: Man Utd

    So, in 9 years, back then, they got only one weaker opponent (Roma), and they still lost in that year.
    Lyon, Lyon, Bayern, Bayern, Juventus, Man Utd, Arsenal, Liverpool.

    So, if we look at stats more deeply, Real surely wasn't "protected" by UEFA always.
    (In fact, to some extent, we could say that Uefa also started to "hate" them after 2002 when THEY won too many trophies in 1998, 2000 and 2002).
    Something happened in the last 5 years.

    And once again, there are several options:
    1. just an insane good/bad luck and random
    2. Uefa pushing ONLY RM (I don't believe in that)
    3. Uefa pushing RM and Bayern and HATING on Barca (my pick)
    4. Flo's money (but there are other insanely rich teams also, imo)

    In shorter, I don't believe that UEFA is helping ONLY to Real.
    It is a mixture of a classical:
    1. semi rigged draw in group stage and early knockout rounds
    2. plus, some hate on Barca because we won too much and we are "boring" and Uefa wants new idols, new posterboys, new heroes
    = and because of that, Uefa IS helping to other 2 biggest teams RM and Bayern to create more interchanging of winners, and not to allow Barca's boring hegemony.
    @BBZ8800

    Dude, you a business analyst for some top notch MNC or some thing? Or a statistician probably?

  7. #1057
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    Wow bbz8800

  8. #1058
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    Great analysis BBZ8800... and the situation relates with a fact, where Juve complicated things with Lyon in the group stage, and anything but a win vs. Sevilla would perhaps send them to Europa League. Therefore, Clattenbitch intervened by giving a bogus penalty and a soft second yellow, to ensure that Juve goes through as first.

    Quite interesting statistics and I totally agree with you that UEFA is hating on Barca, this has to be accepted, but they are trying to balance things out as it seems. Moreover, I don't think Napoli are anything less than average or close to a strong opponent this season. They might surprise RM, with a bit of luck and if there is no refereeing help for the latter.

  9. #1059
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    Interesting fact: 2015 - All of our opponents, including the group stages, were the Champions of their League.

  10. #1060
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    Quote Originally Posted by Antimilan View Post
    Great analysis BBZ8800... and the situation relates with a fact, where Juve complicated things with Lyon in the group stage, and anything but a win vs. Sevilla would perhaps send them to Europa League. Therefore, Clattenbitch intervened by giving a bogus penalty and a soft second yellow, to ensure that Juve goes through as first.

    Quite interesting statistics and I totally agree with you that UEFA is hating on Barca, this has to be accepted, but they are trying to balance things out as it seems. Moreover, I don't think Napoli are anything less than average or close to a strong opponent this season. They might surprise RM, with a bit of luck and if there is no refereeing help for the latter.
    What do you think about the penalty Lyon got vs Juventus in the first match?

  11. #1061
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sultan View Post
    Interesting fact: 2015 - All of our opponents, including the group stages, were the Champions of their League.
    And we beat them all!


    MES QUE UN CLUB

  12. #1062
    Barçapocalypse NOW!
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    UEFA trying to jinx us, hahaha!
    Legends!
    #6 - #5

  13. #1063
    Barçapocalypse NOW!
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    Looks like it worked...
    Legends!
    #6 - #5

  14. #1064
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    I dearly hope that Real lose 4-0 to Napoli. I also want Sevilla and Atletico to be decimated.