Champions League 2016/17

Capitan Puyol said:

C'mon men ! We beat RM even without Neymar at Bernabeu. They aren't invincible. Well in august we have two
supercup matches against them+Miami's match on 30 july ! So 3 El Clasicos for about 20 days!

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Nobody is invincible but they are still the best team in the world right now and we have loads of work to be better.

Lelouch vi Britannia said:

The fact that we beat RM actually does bode well for us when it comes to the CL. If the RM side that won it with such ease lost to us... that means the competition is weak.

Problem is, we're not strong enough to take advantage of that. RM is. We can beat them in a one off when Messi is at his best but when we rely so much on a couple of players to be at their best... it's little wonder we're so inconsistent. Messi and Neymar fail to turn up, Barca fails to turn up because the only good outfield players left are Pique, Busquets and Umtiti and they can't exactly create/score goals. Our midfield is shit, our RBs are shit at least at RB, Alba isn't what he used to be and Suarez looks to be on the decline too, plus the lack of proper midfield service probably doesn't help him.

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The problem is:
1. Real vs Barca is 50:50
2. Real vs all other clubs NOT named Barca is 90:10

On the other hand, for Barca:
1. Barca vs Real 50:50
2. Barca vs Atletico 50:50
3. Barca vs Juve 50:50
4. Barca vs Bayern 50:50

More or less, Real can lose only against us, and ONLY if we have the best day with Messi and few other guys at 120%.
On the other hand, Juve, Atletico and other teams will shit their pants against Real and Real will win easily.

While we scored 1 goal in 11 vs 11 in the last 6 CL knockout exits vs Atletico, Atletico, Juventus.

If we played today vs Juventus or Atletico, it would again be 0:0 or 0:3.
Real would win them again 4:1 and 3:1.

Our one dimensional system has reached a point where our game is good enough against small and midtable teams, while we are at 50:50 against any bigger team and we can lose (and not score for 180 minutes) against any team.
Real, on the other hand, can win easily against Juve and Atletico, the same as they can win against Osasuna and Las Palmas.

So, Real only needs to avoid in a CL and they will win it, since no one else can stop them against us.
On the other hand, we won't get a chance to play semis or a final against Real, since we will lose again and again in 1/8s and quarters against any team, like Bayern, Juve, Atletico and soon it will be also Man City, Liverpool etc.

Real has a solution for any problem (both for big and small teams).
We have a solution only for midtable teams and our "solution" is: give a ball to MSN and hope that they will do some magic.

A tragedy.

The only way to win over Real Madrid is to control the ball and guess which team is the best at it in the world. Falling back in defense like Juventus did in the second half is no different than a R. Madrid - Granada game, I mean they will score, there hasn't been a single match this season that Real Madrid hasn't scored a crucial winning goal.

problem is real have two of if not the best two midfielders in the world in Kroos and Modric. They just control the game so well

BBZ8800 said:

The problem is:
1. Real vs Barca is 50:50
2. Real vs all other clubs NOT named Barca is 90:10

On the other hand, for Barca:
1. Barca vs Real 50:50
2. Barca vs Atletico 50:50
3. Barca vs Juve 50:50
4. Barca vs Bayern 50:50

More or less, Real can lose only against us, and ONLY if we have the best day with Messi and few other guys at 120%.
On the other hand, Juve, Atletico and other teams will shit their pants against Real and Real will win easily.

While we scored 1 goal in 11 vs 11 in the last 6 CL knockout exits vs Atletico, Atletico, Juventus.

If we played today vs Juventus or Atletico, it would again be 0:0 or 0:3.
Real would win them again 4:1 and 3:1.

Our one dimensional system has reached a point where our game is good enough against small and midtable teams, while we are at 50:50 against any bigger team and we can lose (and not score for 180 minutes) against any team.
Real, on the other hand, can win easily against Juve and Atletico, the same as they can win against Osasuna and Las Palmas.

So, Real only needs to avoid in a CL and they will win it, since no one else can stop them against us.
On the other hand, we won't get a chance to play semis or a final against Real, since we will lose again and again in 1/8s and quarters against any team, like Bayern, Juve, Atletico and soon it will be also Man City, Liverpool etc.

Real has a solution for any problem (both for big and small teams).
We have a solution only for midtable teams and our "solution" is: give a ball to MSN and hope that they will do some magic.

A tragedy.

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Yeah you say that but the fact is that they couldn´t beat Las Palmas this season.

Lelouch vi Britannia said:

Which is why I mentioned our inconsistency. Can't expect to win trophies when you fall apart every time 2 players don't bring their A-game.

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Agreed

MagIX said:

?
Did you read my post ?

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Yeah

Windhook said:

The only way to win over Real Madrid is to control the ball and guess which team is the best at it in the world. Falling back in defense like Juventus did in the second half is no different than a R. Madrid - Granada game, I mean they will score, there hasn't been a single match this season that Real Madrid hasn't scored a crucial winning goal.

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if by controlling the ball you mean having useless possession, few chances on goal and overdependence on the attacking trio then that's us

BBZ8800 said:

The problem is:
1. Real vs Barca is 50:50
2. Real vs all other clubs NOT named Barca is 90:10

On the other hand, for Barca:
1. Barca vs Real 50:50
2. Barca vs Atletico 50:50
3. Barca vs Juve 50:50
4. Barca vs Bayern 50:50

More or less, Real can lose only against us, and ONLY if we have the best day with Messi and few other guys at 120%.
On the other hand, Juve, Atletico and other teams will shit their pants against Real and Real will win easily.

While we scored 1 goal in 11 vs 11 in the last 6 CL knockout exits vs Atletico, Atletico, Juventus.

If we played today vs Juventus or Atletico, it would again be 0:0 or 0:3.
Real would win them again 4:1 and 3:1.

Our one dimensional system has reached a point where our game is good enough against small and midtable teams, while we are at 50:50 against any bigger team and we can lose (and not score for 180 minutes) against any team.
Real, on the other hand, can win easily against Juve and Atletico, the same as they can win against Osasuna and Las Palmas.

So, Real only needs to avoid in a CL and they will win it, since no one else can stop them against us.
On the other hand, we won't get a chance to play semis or a final against Real, since we will lose again and again in 1/8s and quarters against any team, like Bayern, Juve, Atletico and soon it will be also Man City, Liverpool etc.

Real has a solution for any problem (both for big and small teams).
We have a solution only for midtable teams and our "solution" is: give a ball to MSN and hope that they will do some magic.

A tragedy.

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What if we sell MSN (except Messi) and create a team that is balanced

barcafan161 said:

problem is real have two of if not the best two midfielders in the world in Kroos and Modric. They just control the game so well

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Three, they have three.

Isco is world class and one of the best as well.

I completly agree with @BBZ post, I also think that is the reason why players that don't completly adapt to our style lose transfer value. In RM they play direct, even counter football and players like Morata or James keep their value, while Arda or Gomes look like clowns and lose the resell price. We play technical but one dimensional football and if you don't mastered it you look clumsy compared to likes of Messi or Iniesta, even though I think players like Gomes or Arda would look good in teams like Liverpool for example.

Devils said:

Three, they have three.

Isco is world class and one of the best as well.

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for sure he has been amazing since Bale went down. Casemiro also is one of the top defensive midfielders too. They are just stacked in the middle and a big reason for their success.

I am in agreement with the discussion here.

This is what you get when you sign players like Arda, Gomes, Denis etc. And neglect the best talent. We could have signed guys like Pjanic, Gundogan last summer and Silva this summer. Yet we settle for these mediocre players every year.

We'll probably sign Deulofeu, Bellerin, Seri etc. this summer and continue with this cycle of madness.

For my two cents, we aren't far behind Real at all. MSN is still the best front line in the world but it's quite simply the MF for me. Our MF has been the crown jewel of Europe until Xavi left. Like, Real absolutely had to sign Modric and then Kroos just to even the odds in MF against us. Again, Real are this strong now bc they were so far behind us during the Pep years, we partially made them this strong. This season, we finally paid the price for losing class like Fabregas and Thiago in MF. Fab in particular would have probably shined a lot more in Lucho's less structured system.

We aren't nearly as far behind them as they were during the Pep era. We just have to be more forward-thinking in the management of the squad. Xavi, Puyol, Dani, Iniesta; we've known for a LONG time that we needed to find replacements for these players, we fucked around and fucked around when players of similar profiles were available and then had to settle with the likes of Arda, Mathieu and Gomes. The player who we should be planning for replacement soon is Suarez and if we start thinking like that and planning transfers two, three years in advance instead of scrambling when it's too late, I don't think we would been in the position that we are in.

Lastly, our strategy under Lucho was way too reliant on individual talent and not nearly as strong cohesively and collectively as an 11 man unit. I think Valverde can get us back to that cohesion and hopefully have us playing the positional game more, which I think will open up more chances for the front three. If Valverde can do that and we make 100% world class signings in the holes in the squad (RB, CM, future Suarez replacement), I'm very confident we would end Real's streak. They are good but they aren't nearly as untouchable as we were in the Pep years.

Nelson Semedo is a good start for the summer signings. Last night hurts but hopefully this wakes the board up and we stop this emulation of the galactico-policy, go back to promoting our youth players and back to the football that made this club the envy of the world. Real started being more like us, that's why they have been winning while us trying to emulate them has resulted in nothing but disappointment, so why continue it?

Last night sucked but the epic comeback against PSG and Messi's masterclass in the Bernabeu were moments this season to cherish.

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] Some points are valid but it's a mystery how a well informed fan like yourself would constantly underestimate the work that had been done to bring about that amazing generation of players. You try forcefully to make it look like it was a lightnining striking in the same place twice;while in fact, that lightning had striken 8 times at the same time !!! which means there is not lightning ! Luck is not enough to collect that amazing squad of players. Something was done right, and this thing, for some reason, was neglected. I'm not an insider to give you answers.. But i think my logic is solid in this situation.

And of course while i agree about analysis about Barca overall (except the point above) , i massively disagree with your analysis of Real Madrid. That was a circus of a club. A circus that depended massively on "buying Monopoly" because the rest couldn't compete financially (not even premier league). So the clowns usd to strip the great clubs of their players luring them with money. That's the point which made me despise them and their values and not them being rivals. Even with that, there was a period where they were the laughing stock of Europe in terms of results. So I don't know about them "always being Wise buyers etc.." unless you are talking of course about the very recent years where they simply adopted our vision and took their eyes off strikers and shifted towards midfielders.

Devils said:

I am in agreement with the discussion here.

This is what you get when you sign players like Arda, Gomes, Denis etc. And neglect the best talent. We could have signed guys like Pjanic, Gundogan last summer and Silva this summer. Yet we settle for these mediocre players every year.

We'll probably sign Deulofeu, Bellerin, Seri etc. this summer and continue with this cycle of madness.

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I agree with most of it but getting guys like Deulofeu, Bellerin isn't as bad as buying Gomes and Paco for 50+ mill combined. At least they are players from la masia. This is what Zidane turned and did with Real instead of buying buying buying they have Vasquez, Asensio, Morata come in and be great role players, he then utilized what he had in Isco instead of the overrated Bale and turned Carvajal into a solid starter. We should of done the same keeping Samper, Munir, Sandro instead of Gomes, Paco and Turan purchases in hind sight.

BBZ8800 said:

The problem is:
1. Real vs Barca is 50:50
2. Real vs all other clubs NOT named Barca is 90:10

On the other hand, for Barca:
1. Barca vs Real 50:50
2. Barca vs Atletico 50:50
3. Barca vs Juve 50:50
4. Barca vs Bayern 50:50

More or less, Real can lose only against us, and ONLY if we have the best day with Messi and few other guys at 120%.
On the other hand, Juve, Atletico and other teams will shit their pants against Real and Real will win easily.

While we scored 1 goal in 11 vs 11 in the last 6 CL knockout exits vs Atletico, Atletico, Juventus.

If we played today vs Juventus or Atletico, it would again be 0:0 or 0:3.
Real would win them again 4:1 and 3:1.

Our one dimensional system has reached a point where our game is good enough against small and midtable teams, while we are at 50:50 against any bigger team and we can lose (and not score for 180 minutes) against any team.
Real, on the other hand, can win easily against Juve and Atletico, the same as they can win against Osasuna and Las Palmas.

So, Real only needs to avoid in a CL and they will win it, since no one else can stop them against us.
On the other hand, we won't get a chance to play semis or a final against Real, since we will lose again and again in 1/8s and quarters against any team, like Bayern, Juve, Atletico and soon it will be also Man City, Liverpool etc.

Real has a solution for any problem (both for big and small teams).
We have a solution only for midtable teams and our "solution" is: give a ball to MSN and hope that they will do some magic.

A tragedy.

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I don't entirely agree with this

Since 2013-2014 season where RM have won 1 League and 3 CL this is our H2H

Barcelona V Real Madrid

5-1-2

Real Madrid V Barcelona

2-1-5

This is the H2H V Atleti

Barcelona V Atletico

9-7-2

Real Madrid V Atletico

7-5-7

We've play Allegri Juve 3 times each

Barcelona V Juventus

1-1-1

Real Madrid V Juventus

1-1-1

Total H2H against each other + Atelti and Juve

Barcelona: 15-9-5

Real Madrid: 10-7-13

We triumph them in the big games, our problem isn't being one dimensional it's lack in FB and midfield area, which is the reason RM have an upper hand to us against them. We still do find away to beat them despite that, our defeat to Juve was mainly down to Enrique tactically choice and formation/player, while it was due to poor finishing in the return leg, RM also of the luxury of having a bench worth over 200M. I'll also highlight we've beaten this 3 out 4 CL winning RM side when Messi has had off games.

Cule For Life said:

We triumph them in the big games, our problem isn't being one dimensional it's lack in FB and midfield area, which is the reason RM have an upper hand to us against them. We still do find away to beat them despite that, our defeat to Juve was mainly down to Enrique tactically choice and formation/player, while it was due to poor finishing in the return leg, RM also of the luxury of having a bench worth over 200M. I'll also highlight we've beaten this 3 out 4 CL winning RM side when Messi has had off games.

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Don't look at La liga games.
In La liga, you can lose and nothing will happen, you can make up for it in the next rounds.
So, the pressure is lower.

In a CL, it is a sudden death knockout match.
In those circumstances, our team is way weaker.

We have 1 title in the last 6 CL seasons, even though we had Messi.
That's really a horrible, horrible achievement.

Barca crumbles mentally against Juve and Atletico.
While when Real plays against them, AM and Juve look like frightened kids.

So, we are mentally fragile in knockout matches.
We don't have a plan B.
We are physically very weak compared to some other top teams.
Our long term plan is questionable.
We don't have money.
La Masia is dry.
Messi will be gone soon.