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Thread: Best teams ever - where do we fit in?

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    Cool Best teams ever - where do we fit in?



    This is my personal list. Nothing objective here besides the fact that I don't have any opinions on anything and just went by what other people think.


    So, this has taken a long time to make because I had to find a lot of teams and stats and then change it all when people pointed out a team that didn't deserve the spot on the list, like Manchester United 1995- and Arsenal 2004. Or when people pointed out that a team didn't remain good for that long a time period. A lot of people commented on it the last time - all on Reddit.

    I have combined various lists into a shorter list with only the top teams remaining.

    I have used this site a lot as it actually had a list of teams. But I removed some teams from the list that didn't win anything during their reign: http://footballsgreatest.weebly.com/club-teams.html

    Done in Excel. You are free to remake it by using the Excel data I have.

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    Can't say about pre 1997, because I hadn't been following football intensely before that year. But after 1997, no team comes close to Pep and Lucho's Barca.

    Take Madrid between 1998-2003. Won 2 La Liga titles in that time frame and lost 3. Didn't even dominate Spain in an impressive way. How could you compare that with 6 titles in 8 years of Barca?
    Last edited by serghei; 27th May 2016 at 04:51 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Can't say about pre 1997, because I hadn't been following football intensely before that year. But after 1997, no team comes close to Pep and Lucho's Barca.

    Take Madrid between 1998-2003. Won 2 La Liga titles in that time frame and lost 3. Didn't even dominate Spain in an impressive way. How could you compare that with 6 titles in 8 years of Barca?
    To be fair. You don't. You don't compare 6 years to 8 years. They did win CL 3 times in that period of time. While we didn't win 3 CL's in 6 years, but rather 3 CL's in 7 years. Also, United and Bayern might very well be included in this list of teams after 2007.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurij View Post
    To be fair. You don't. You don't compare 6 years to 8 years. They did win CL 3 times in that period of time. While we didn't win 3 CL's in 6 years, but rather 3 CL's in 7 years. Also, United and Bayern might very well be included in this list of teams after 2007.
    As I said, you can win CLs without being super dominant. Dominance has to be an all levels. You can't be the best team in Europe without being the best team in your country during the season. Doesn't make any sense. League + CL equals dominance. CL alone doesn't.

    And we won 4 CLs in 9 years. Best record in the history of the Champions League (1992 - present). Almost one out of two during a decade. In other words, if you add all non-Barca winners in the last decade, they barely win against us: 6-4.

    4/9 CLs
    6/9 La Ligas.
    2 Trebles
    2 CL + La Liga doubles

    That's domination of the highest order. And not talking about a normal period of domination, like 3-4 years. Those are stats that cover almost a whole decade.

    And keep in mind that the way we lost the league in 2007 and 2014 was dramatic. Could have easily been 8/10 La Liga titles in the last decade.
    Last edited by serghei; 27th May 2016 at 05:13 PM.

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    How did you compare Club Teams and National Teams? Not a fair comparison as well as not very intelligible either IMO

    Like for example Spain 2008-12 was definitely a dominant force but I don't think they would have fared much better than Heynckes Bayern for instance or even Mou's Inter for that matter. I mean Sneijder almost defeated Spain in the final, he was one Robben's choke away from doing so and had Robben actually not choked... boom, Spain's dominance wouldn't be as shiny as it is now!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryagorn View Post
    How did you compare Club Teams and National Teams? Not a fair comparison as well as not very intelligible either IMO

    Like for example Spain 2008-12 was definitely a dominant force but I don't think they would have fared much better than Heynckes Bayern for instance or even Mou's Inter for that matter. I mean Sneijder almost defeated Spain in the final, he was one Robben's choke away from doing so and had Robben actually not choked... boom, Spain's dominance wouldn't be as shiny as it is now!
    These teams are considered by many to be the best teams ever. Spain won all 3 mayor tournaments in a row and then lost a final. All teams can lose a final but be great, Bayern did that to Chelsea.

    With Spain you have to look at the stats. Okay, first look at the 2007-2013 wins vs. loses.

    Here are the first 2 years. 1 loss in 2 years. Not bad at all. Also, won both Euro and WC, perfect!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_...00%E2%80%9309)

    Also, the did get a few records like most consecutive wins by any team and then most undefeated games in a row, this one shared with Brazil. And 30/30 points for the WC qualification. Don't know if any team has done that before:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_...l_team_records

    2010-2013. Lost 6 games. Clearly a worse team. But losing 7 games in 3 years is quite good for a team that plays major tournaments during that time. Spain does deserve to be on this list. They might be the best national team of all time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_...l_team_records

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jurij View Post
    These teams are considered by many to be the best teams ever. Spain won all 3 mayor tournaments in a row and then lost a final. All teams can lose a final but be great, Bayern did that to Chelsea.

    With Spain you have to look at the stats. Okay, first look at the 2007-2013 wins vs. loses.

    Here are the first 2 years. 1 loss in 2 years. Not bad at all. Also, won both Euro and WC, perfect!
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_...00%E2%80%9309)

    Also, the did get a few records like most consecutive wins by any team and then most undefeated games in a row, this one shared with Brazil. And 30/30 points for the WC qualification. Don't know if any team has done that before:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_...l_team_records

    2010-2013. Lost 6 games. Clearly a worse team. But losing 7 games in 3 years is quite good for a team that plays major tournaments during that time. Spain does deserve to be on this list. They might be the best national team of all time.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spain_...l_team_records
    Aren't you just stating my point? Spain in the aforementioned time was one of the most dominant forces (as far as NTs are concerned) if not the best ever.

    But they have had their fair share of luck and stuff and all of their wins in the FIFA 2010 were just 1 goal margin except for the one against the minnows, Honduras! Not trying to take any thing away from that World Cup winners (after all winners make their own luck), but compare that to Heynckes' Bayern! This team has actually bulldozed their way past every which team they came across that year!!

    We are actually comparing a team that plays one or two match in a stretch of two-three months and a team that plays every week and actually plays a quality opponent more number of times!

    I some how feel that comparing NT to a club is not fair.... For any of them actually. On one hand we have a team who only meet once in a blue moon and play very less number of matches and actually don't have to win a whole lot to actually win a trophy whereas on the other hand a club would have to maintain that consistency every damn week! At the same time, NT would not have the luxury of having good amount of team chemistry like a club would! I do not think finding an MSN or a BBC would be very easy in a National Team?

    btw, Spain NT did not lose any final no?

    Oh yeah, they did lose the confeds.... But it's alright. That's a meh tournament anyway
    Last edited by Aryagorn; 27th May 2016 at 07:53 PM.

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    Well, if you win everything there is to win what more can you do to prove you are a good team? Nothing, it's not like Spain could play more games. According to you Spain winning 3 huge tournaments in a row is not enough. Well, most people would disagree with that assumption. Bayern is a great team. But that doesn't mean Chelsea or Atletico are bad teams just because they are 1 goal winning teams. Some teams just don't score that much. Some teams defend very well, some teams score a lot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aryagorn View Post
    Aren't you just stating my point? Spain in the aforementioned time was one of the most dominant forces (as far as NTs are concerned) if not the best ever.

    But they have had their fair share of luck and stuff and all of their wins in the FIFA 2010 were just 1 goal margin except for the one against the minnows, Honduras! Not trying to take any thing away from that World Cup winners (after all winners make their own luck), but compare that to Heynckes' Bayern! This team has actually bulldozed their way past every which team they came across that year!!

    We are actually comparing a team that plays one or two match in a stretch of two-three months and a team that plays every week and actually plays a quality opponent more number of times!

    I some how feel that comparing NT to a club is not fair.... For any of them actually. On one hand we have a team who only meet once in a blue moon and play very less number of matches and actually don't have to win a whole lot to actually win a trophy whereas on the other hand a club would have to maintain that consistency every damn week! At the same time, NT would not have the luxury of having good amount of team chemistry like a club would! I do not think finding an MSN or a BBC would be very easy in a National Team?

    btw, Spain NT did not lose any final no?

    Oh yeah, they did lose the confeds.... But it's alright. That's a meh tournament anyway
    Spains dominance is also an argument for our dominance seeing as the national team was filled with Barca players during their run of 3 tournament wins in a row.
    If you can go and play at a full Celtic Park on Champions League night then you can play anywhere. The fans create a crazy atmosphere like nothing I have ever heard. I do hope in the future we can draw Celtic again because even though we lost it is one of the best stadiums to play football in the world". Andres Iniesta

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    Celtic 10 years!!!??? Nonono. Ruins it.
    Also mudrid not so early, Barca was better than Madrid in 1998 and only incredible bad luck draw and group system stopped us in 1999 while in 2000 we were just in one of those nights like with Atletico this year and 2 years ago but were clearly able to beat them in Paris if it wasn't for the bad day in Valencia, what was so impressive about real? Raul the future victim of expensive stars? Could've cracked them easily...

    This might be good, but Barca 2004-2006 was very good too and Brazil failed bad in 2006 while being only good on paper, Barca under Cruyff should be there too for at least 3 years while Bayern may deserve a bit more than the 3 years they won ECC consecutively and if not, you could give a year or two to Gladbach in exchange.

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    I agree it's impossible to compare NTs and Club-teams.

    Usually the best club teams are better than the best NTs, because they train much more together and can buy the best fitting player for every position.

    Thats why I think it would make more sense make a separate list for NTs and Club-teams;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    As I said, you can win CLs without being super dominant. Dominance has to be an all levels. You can't be the best team in Europe without being the best team in your country during the season. Doesn't make any sense. League + CL equals dominance. CL alone doesn't.
    Sorry.
    I just personally rate CL like 5-10 La liga titles and a CL title is the biggest achievement in a club football.

    While you are right about how you need to be consistent in La liga over 10-12 Months and that it shows some level of quality, but someone else may reply:
    = true, but in league championships with 38-40 matches, you can afford to lose some matches
    = or you can lose against your biggest rival and still win a title because you were better against crappy teams etc
    = also, it could be said that in a CL matches, you are not allowed to make mistakes. One wrong step or a bad day, and you are dead. So, you have to be in form, extremely motivated, on a physical peak etc. And how it is a competition only for big boys with best nerves, motivation, mental strength, physical strength in a key Months of a season...

    If I would try to exaggerate, I could say now that choker teams like Atletico Madrid, Arsenal and similar can do wonders in a league championships (especially if they find a formula how to play against midtable and crappy teams from your country) and they can win some titles, again as mentioned above, basically without wins against bigger teams...

    I know that we are all sad now, but imo, this trashing of CL's importance on majority of topics is going slightly too far.
    I won't be surprised to read that we actually had a better season than RM.
    Or how La Liga title is actually more important than a CL title, lol.

    A random example, I am reading news feed on my Facebook today, and bunch of girls whom I know are commenting:
    "Yes, Real Madrid won! They are champions of Europe!
    Or: "oh no, Atletico lost, I am soooo sad" etc

    They are casual football watchers, but everybody watched a CL final yesterday.
    And if you asked them who is the best this year: It's Real. They won a European cup, or a CL, or a tournament with best teams from all over the Europe, right?
    They have no idea who won La Liga or CDR...

    They are casual fans, but you get the point.

    And imo, this is just my opinion, but I think that majority of football fans outside of Barcaforum and outside of EPL (since they think that EPL title is the most important thing, lol), will say:
    1. CL title > league title
    2. CL title > league title + cup title
    3. CL title > league title + cup title + domestic super cup title
    4. CL title > league title + cup title + domestic super cup title + European super cup title
    5. CL title > league title + cup title + domestic super cup title + European super cup title + Club's World cup title

    So, if you offered me options for the next season:
    Barca:
    1. Cl or La Liga
    = CL
    2. Cl or La Liga+cup
    = CL
    3. Cl or La Liga+cup+domestic supercup
    = CL
    4. CL or 5 other titles (but no CL)
    = give me a CL title any day of a week

    Or:
    1. Barca=CL
    Real=La Liga+cup+Spanish super cup+European Super cup+World champion
    2. Barca=5 trophies
    Real=CL

    I would chose Barca=CL, right away.
    And Real can take 5 other trophies and do whatever they want with them...

    Maybe I am too biased towards CL titles, but imo, too many fans here are now diminishing it's importance way too much...
    Last edited by BBZ8800; 29th May 2016 at 12:46 PM.

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    @BBZ8800, you fell for the marketing of the Champions League. CL is without a doubt the most marketed football competition. Trumps even the World Cup.

    There's no reason why the CL should be more important than La Liga, in a period when 3/4 best teams in the world are from La Liga. It is viewed as more important because of the "prestige" - and that is related to marketing mostly. Champions League is viewed as the best because of the false idea that whoever wins it is the King of Europe. In reality, that is not a valid connection, except in rare occasions. And the reasons are obvious.

    The competition is mostly marketing. I've always said that on this forum, not only now that Real has won it. Even said it last year when we won it.

    Even the name is illogical: champions League. "Champion" means being the first in a competition. Real should have participated in a true Champions League only 1 time in the last 7 seasons. The fact that 70% of the teams that play in the Champions League are non-champions is a logical fallacy.

    I give credit to CL for concentrating big stakes in two-legged games, or single games (final). But that is the appeal of Cup competition in general. It can be spectacular, and it can create special nights. But it's like a show of 2 months after which everybody goes home, until a new show comes next year and the cycle runs again.

    In more than one way, Champions League is for club competitions what Real Madrid is for european football clubs. Only fitting that Madrid is the most successful in this competition (even though it's not actually fair to put the equal sign between Champions League and European Cup, because there are some huge differences between tham, basically a different competition).

    Leicester has more right to play in the "Champions League" than Real Madrid does, simply because they are champions of England, while Madrid is not the champions of Spain.
    Last edited by serghei; 29th May 2016 at 02:15 PM.

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    BBZ is taking this one straight to the heart, 1 CL being worth 5-10 la ligas, especially in this era of la liga...

  15. #15
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    Only the amount of luck involving this CL format is enough for it to not be better than la liga. It's consistency above all.