11 - Ousmane Dembélé - V1

Raketa10 said:

I get your point but bare in mind we still don't have Coutinho in CL and Dembele is still far from required level since he was long time injured. I bet this is the reason he sticks with this formation apart from the fact that Suarez can't play as LW and Messi doesn't want to play RW.

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Fair, enough, but we have some easy matches coming up now before the second leg. Our current system hasn't worked properly for the last month or two and it's time to experiment a bit and try and find a solution.

I have no problems with EV's decision not to play Dembele yesterday but to make any conclusions on him and his longterm future here just because EV has selected Vidal over him it's way too early. Most obvious reason is EV doesn't think he's fit enough to play in games of this magnitude which is totally understandable. We've seen against Getafe he's far from his best physically but he could also be struggling mentally (which would also be understandable for such a young player) after injury problems that have influenced and prolonged his adaptation period.

Having patience and taking care of him which I think EV and the club in general are currently doing is not the same as giving up on him. We've paid what we did for him with intention he'll help us for years to come not just this season. Obviously we've hoped he'll give us more immediately but this season was always meant to be for his adaptation as it usually happens with all new players. Even proven worldclass players usually needed more than just a few weeks or months to adapt.

After longterm injury and then relapse those plans were put on hold and now our biggest concern should be to prevent Dembele from becoming injury prone so he can still develop to (close to) his full potential. Messi had similar problems as well when younger and then he and the club dealt with those issues the right way. Hopefully the same will happen with Dembele and he'll have a chance to prove whether he's good enough talentwise and a good fit enough based on his playing style to make it here. I think he has everything to have a long successfull career at Barça but the first very important (and so far very tough) lesson he has learn is how to take care of his own body properly. Doctors, coaches,... can take all the care with him but ultimately it's his own career so he'll have to learn how to be more responsible as well.

Ousmane Dembélé said:

Fair, enough, but we have some easy matches coming up now before the second leg. Our current system hasn't worked properly for the last month or two and it's time to experiment a bit and try and find a solution.

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I agree with that but I would also add that a lot depends on Demebele's form. If he manages to raise up his game and put himself in starting 11 solution is clear otherwise I am afraid that Semedo as RB and Roberto as RM is our only solution for CL matches.

Ousmane Dembélé said:

It's truly amazing how some people blindly defend the status quo even when it's not working, which it clearly isn't. I had no problem with the 4-4-2 in December or January when Dembele was injured, we didn't have Coutinho and were still able to score with it and play relatively well, or at least well enough. Now that the system is falling apart I want a change which is very feasible with the players currently fit and in the squad.

What I find even more bizarre is that after so vehemently defending Valverde's workhorse 4-4-2 for the past few months BBZ has turned and done a 180 on a dime and is talking about how we're so slow, predictable and overly reliant on Messi. But he was advocating for this very system for the longest time and would argue against anyone that would make any of the points he's now making himself. He went from loving the 4-4-2 to absolutely hating the way we play after just one match.

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I don't understand it either. There were those of us who could see these problems, and it's not just one game, coming from a mile away.

BBZ has gone from advocating hard for the flailing workhorse system to now wanting taller, stronger strikers who can head the ball. He's even gone as far as saying he will never forgive Guardiola for what he has done to Barcelona. It would appear he has gone off the reservation list.

Ousmane Dembélé said:

Fair, enough, but we have some easy matches coming up now before the second leg. Our current system hasn't worked properly for the last month or two and it's time to experiment a bit and try and find a solution.

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Agreed.

Raketa10 said:

Or maybe Valverde was just telling the truth when he said he didn't want to play Dembele against Chelsea since he was injured for 8 months and has barely played this year. Why would he risk with him in such important game when he clearly ins't ready to perform on such high level + he never got the chance to integrate him in our team since he was injured 24/7. It's simple as that.

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https://en.as.com/en/2018/02/20/football/1519166047_620072.html

Why Aleix Vidal and not Dembélé? "He spend a lot of time injured and for a game with this characteristics, the managers bet on the things they know and we have a seen it rather than an expectation. Aleix gives us things too, he has a distinct profile. When we arrive into a game of this calibre, I rely on certainty that I have to put Paulinho in the starting line-up and to put Aleix out there looking for more depth. It's not the moment for experiments or to do tests. That's how I see it."

For sure this is a reason, a logical and intelligent decision.

Are there any other reasons ? it could be as it could not be, he is the coach, he knows the players better than us.

Jägermeister said:

So were they panic buys or did we want them before as well? That is kind of contradictory.

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This is what I wanted to say.
Currently we are interested in:
1. Dybala
2. Verratti
3. Arthur
4. Eriksen
5. Thiago
6. Goretzka

So, those are players whom we would like to see in our shirt one day.
But, in this moment, we either don't need them either because we are covered in that position or because those players are too expensive.

And imagine that Coutinho starts to play awesome soon in Iniesta's position.
And then PSG steals him for 200-300M (a random example).
And then, we just go out and buy Goretzka for 100M and Thiago for 250M instead of Coutinho.

And 6 Months later we figure out that Goretzka is not as good as expected.
And that he is not suitable for our style at all.
Or that Thiago is not as good fit as a CAM like Coutinho.

This is an analogy with Dembele.
We surely DID follow him since he was an interesting player.
But if Neymar stayed here, we surely wouldn't buy him, since he wouldn't be able to play with MSN in our team.

Coutinho, we also wanted him, but who knows whether we would pay 100, 120 or 160M for him if Neymar didn't leave?

In that sense, my impression is still that Dembele was a panic buy.
It is not as if we didn't follow him.
But he looked like a next big thing in that moment, he was a flavor of a month/of a season and it was: either Dybala (a horrible fit also) or Dembele as our next winger.
And we needed to buy someone right away because Barto would get sacked by angry fans and socios (Real Madrid winning 3 CLs and Neymar-the-future leaving us).

MessiCam said:

I don't understand it either. There were those of us who could see these problems, and it's not just one game, coming from a mile away.

BBZ has gone from advocating hard for the flailing workhorse system to now wanting taller, stronger strikers who can head the ball. He's even gone as far as saying he will never forgive Guardiola for what he has done to Barcelona. It would appear he has gone off the reservation list.

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If we played 433 yesterday with Messi-Dembele-Suarez, we would probably lose 3:0, like always.

Evolved Barca is better than a current 442.
But 442 is still way better longterm than 433 where our midfield and defense get exposed and we often look like little kids against men.

If you think that yesterday's match was a disaster, better look back how we played with 433:
Our attack was equally as sterile as in 442 (due to playing trhough the middle and on the ground all the time against 2 buses around the opponent's box).
While our defense and midfield's stability is way better in 442 and we allow less shots and counters.
So, my opinion is still that we would lose 3:0 or 3:1 with 433, while we can survive with 0:1, 1:0 or 1:1 with 442:


If Msn couldn't create anything for the last 2 years, why do you think that suddenly a rookie kid Dembele would help in our creative department against those big teams?
What, Dembele is suddenly better than Neymar?

Take a look at the last two "adventures" with 433.
Streile, sterile, sterile.
Attacking through the middle and being unable to break a bus of 10 players around the box with our shortpasses (what a surprise...).

BBZ8800 said:

This is what I wanted to say.
Currently we are interested in:
1. Dybala
2. Verratti
3. Arthur
4. Eriksen
5. Thiago
6. Goretzka

So, those are players whom we would like to see in our shirt one day.
But, in this moment, we either don't need them either because we are covered in that position or because those players are too expensive.

And imagine that Coutinho starts to play awesome soon in Iniesta's position.
And then PSG steals him for 200-300M (a random example).
And then, we just go out and buy Goretzka for 100M and Thiago for 250M instead of Coutinho.

And 6 Months later we figure out that Goretzka is not as good as expected.
And that he is not suitable for our style at all.
Or that Thiago is not as good fit as a CAM like Coutinho.

This is an analogy with Dembele.
We surely DID follow him since he was an interesting player.
But if Neymar stayed here, we surely wouldn't buy him, since he wouldn't be able to play with MSN in our team.

Coutinho, we also wanted him, but who knows whether we would pay 100, 120 or 160M for him if Neymar didn't leave?

In that sense, my impression is still that Dembele was a panic buy.
It is not as if we didn't follow him.
But he looked like a next big thing in that moment, he was a flavor of a month/of a season and it was: either Dybala (a horrible fit also) or Dembele as our next winger.
And we needed to buy someone right away because Barto would get sacked by angry fans and socios (Real Madrid winning 3 CLs and Neymar-the-future leaving us).

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Serously BBZ you are overthinking this WAAAY to much!

BBZ8800 said:

This is what I wanted to say.
Currently we are interested in:
1. Dybala
2. Verratti
3. Arthur
4. Eriksen
5. Thiago
6. Goretzka

So, those are players whom we would like to see in our shirt one day.
But, in this moment, we either don't need them either because we are covered in that position or because those players are too expensive.

And imagine that Coutinho starts to play awesome soon in Iniesta's position.
And then PSG steals him for 200-300M (a random example).
And then, we just go out and buy Goretzka for 100M and Thiago for 250M instead of Coutinho.

And 6 Months later we figure out that Goretzka is not as good as expected.
And that he is not suitable for our style at all.
Or that Thiago is not as good fit as a CAM like Coutinho.

This is an analogy with Dembele.
We surely DID follow him since he was an interesting player.
But if Neymar stayed here, we surely wouldn't buy him, since he wouldn't be able to play with MSN in our team.

Coutinho, we also wanted him, but who knows whether we would pay 100, 120 or 160M for him if Neymar didn't leave?

In that sense, my impression is still that Dembele was a panic buy.
It is not as if we didn't follow him.
But he looked like a next big thing in that moment, he was a flavor of a month/of a season and it was: either Dybala (a horrible fit also) or Dembele as our next winger.

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Cut the crap or at least get your facts in order before making statements such as these please. You have a predetermined conclusion and now you're just working back to support it.

We wanted Dembélé despite Neymar still being here. It was Dembélé that chose Dortmund and playing time over us.

Guys I have an idea! Why not start playing the 2:2:2:2:2, where we can play wall passes all the way from Stegen to the opponents goal. Unstoppable.

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] it could have easily been 3-0 or 3-1 last night if it weren't for the upright. This 4-4-2 is not better defensively or not significantly anyway.

We got lucky last night. Move on.

Per the stats we concede 0.11 shots per minute in a 4-4-2 and 0.13 shots per minute in a 4-3-3.

Panic buy?......

I really hope that the purchase of Dembele has not been imposed from Bartomeu and friends...

I really hope that the purchase of Dembele has been agreed 100% with Valverde, because Valverde had a clear idea how to play, a clear formation in his head, with Dembele having a key role.

Kohe321 said:

Guys I have an idea! Why not start playing the 2:2:2:2:2, where we can play wall passes all the way from Stegen to the opponents goal. Unstoppable.

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Why are you so conservative?! Let's go with 1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1

MessiCam said:

[MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] it could have easily been 3-0 or 3-1 last night if it weren't for the upright. This 4-4-2 is not better defensively or not significantly anyway.

We got lucky last night. Move on.

Per the stats we concede 0.11 shots per minute in a 4-4-2 and 0.13 shots per minute in a 4-3-3.

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https://www.sport-english.com/en/new...alance-6582040

On Neymar he said: "Neymar's departure has changed our way of playing. We lose lots of attacking potential but it helped us in a defensive sence. Right now we're very well armed in the centre of the pitch. We have more balance and that makes us defensively strong."

Do you think that Messi is telling shit ?



In La Liga (goal conceded):

12-13: 1.05

13-14: 0.86

14-15: 0.55

15-16: 0.76

16-17: 0.97

17-18: 0.47

Raketa10 said:

Why are you so conservative?! Let's go with 1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1:1

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Well, now you're just being ridiculous...