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Thread: 11 - Ousmane Dembélé

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Messi View Post
    Are we going to use 2 select games as examples of a team's (any for that matter) strength now? Is that the logic now?
    Did you watch the two games against Lyon? Lyon created less danger than Villarreal did at the Camp Nou months ago who are now fighting to survive in La Liga. The same Lyon team that is ranked 27 on UEFA's list of best performing club sides in Europe.

    Anyway you skipped every point that I wrote (legitimate that even local media are taking up for a reason) and instead objected to my correct statement of Lyon being a bang average team in those two legs.



    Nice one-liner. Too bad that it makes no sense as I am far from criticizing Valverde for everything let alone blaming him for everything. You must be thinking about other users here.

    Lastly I wrote that it was the fault of the medical staff AND Valverde to risk him and even wrote that Dembélé is to blame as well. So not sure where this ridiculous "Valverde is to blame for all" claims are coming from. Certainly not from my part as everyone that can read English can figure out.

    Valverde obviously had the final say so to totally absorb him of any blame is moronic. I know that you live Valverde but come on.
    Thought about replying but seeing every post you do is like a novel i decided i wouldn't bother

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBarcaBoy View Post
    Thought about replying but seeing every post you do is like a novel i decided i wouldn't bother
    I don't think that anyone cares as nobody is interested in reading your one-liners nor expect you to make much sense if you attempted something else.

    As a side comment, I can inform you that 2 users alone wrote longer posts in the previous page than my "extremely" long reply.

    EDIT: Took a quick look at your posting history. Basically all of your posts are idiotic one-liners so not exactly a surprise. You are like a one-liner machine put on repeat.

    Sorry if this reply is too long for you as well.
    Last edited by Leo_Messi; 15th March 2019 at 12:10 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Messi View Post
    1) The medical staff is not infallable. There have been plenty of examples of them making misjudgementes. Every elite club has rushed players back too soon. Mostly at the insistence of the manager or player. The medical field is not an exact science for a reason too.
    2) Does not matter if he only played 5 minutes (in theory) when clearly not fully ready hence re-injuring himself.
    3) Exactly what I wrote and what I criticized Dembélé for. Must have missed that part of my post.
    4) That is not a fact but your personal opinion. Malcom could have added much of the same. Runs, pace, threat from the outside.
    5) They smelled blood because we started (for no reason) to sit back and defend while being too nonchalant and not scoring on our chances. Not because we did not have energy left. We played without using much energy for most parts of the first half especially as we scored those 2 goals rather quickly. Hence going all out blazing for the reminder of the game.
    6) While Malcom was rusty it did not prevent him from scoring in the past, hence my Inter example. Dembélé was not fully ready either.

    What are you blabbering about? "Most blame on Valverde" by equally blaming the medical staff and Dembélé himself? Is that your version of blaming everything on Valverde as claimed initially?

    Valverde (the manager) having the final say at the end of the day on whether to use a player or not is also a factual statement. So once again, trying to absorb Valverde from all the blame makes zero sense.

    BTW if it appears that I am overly critical it is because Dembélé is arguably our second most important offensive player and one of my favorite players so obviously I am a bit pissed off that he was risked and suffered a relapse that will take him out for 3-4 weeks in a crucial part of the season. A far cry of your caricature of "blaming Valverde for everything".
    1) Exactly. We have seen it plenty of times, Even pep has suffered from misjudged medical clearences (we all remember his rage, screaming at them) ,there are no guarentees. But if a player is cleared, it means ceteris paribus that The manager can play the player. 2) And valverede only played him as a sub because he WAS cautios. 3) I did read it. 4) 6) And thats your opinion. We do know that dembele has played this role with High succes, and we do know that malcom has barely played and prob isnt in form. We also know that the gab in quality between those two is huge. We also know Malcom isnt as pacy or as good in the contra phase. We axtually dont know that much about this guy so its crazy to assume he could have provided anything at all in such a game. Malcom scoring a goal Vs means nothing. Also he played a different role.5) I do think that our oldies were tired and lyon manager said himself they put effort into playing closer to our goal, also scoring a goal from 2-0 to 2-1 normally gives The mental advaantage.

    Blaming everything om Valverde was a general statement. I did just come from The "retardo"-thread, you did in fact put most of the blameon valverde. Imo took a caculated risk, and it did pay off in the sense that it secured our advancement, but it did more damage than good. But thats a far cry from "valverde is to blame". Its unlucky, thats the way i would put it. And we should in hindsigh maybe not have played him. But who knows what would have happened IF we didnt sub him, maybe Lyon would have scored, advanced and every valverde hater on this board (leta be honest at least 60-70%) would have blamed valverde for not risking dembele.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Messi View Post
    I don't think that anyone cares as nobody is interested in reading your one-liners nor expect you to make much sense if you attempted something else.

    As a side comment, I can inform you that 2 users alone wrote longer posts in the previous page than my "extremely" long reply.

    EDIT: Took a quick look at your posting history. Basically all of your posts are idiotic one-liners so not exactly a surprise. You are like a one-liner machine put on repeat.

    Sorry if this reply is too long for you as well.
    You need to pull your head out of your ass, injuries happen in football, accept that fact, you can't always wrap players in cotton wool, if their are signs of fatigue or they are in the red zone then fine. You state uefs rank lyon 27th in europe, thst means absolutely nothing. I bet you haven't watched them recently.

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    Are we going to use 2 select games as examples of a team's (any for that matter) strength now? Is that the logic now?

    But you did kinda use a similar logic with malcom

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBarcaBoy View Post
    You need to pull your head out of your ass, injuries happen in football, accept that fact, you can't always wrap players in cotton wool, if their are signs of fatigue or they are in the red zone then fine. You state uefs rank lyon 27th in europe, thst means absolutely nothing. I bet you haven't watched them recently.
    You are a bit thick are you not? Thought so. Talk about missing the point (s) completely. Might read what users are writing before engaging in silly debates. Just a friendly advice.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havesaks View Post
    1) Exactly. We have seen it plenty of times, Even pep has suffered from misjudged medical clearences (we all remember his rage, screaming at them) ,there are no guarentees. But if a player is cleared, it means ceteris paribus that The manager can play the player. 2) And valverede only played him as a sub because he WAS cautios. 3) I did read it. 4) 6) And thats your opinion. We do know that dembele has played this role with High succes, and we do know that malcom has barely played and prob isnt in form. We also know that the gab in quality between those two is huge. We also know Malcom isnt as pacy or as good in the contra phase. We axtually dont know that much about this guy so its crazy to assume he could have provided anything at all in such a game. Malcom scoring a goal Vs means nothing. Also he played a different role.5) I do think that our oldies were tired and lyon manager said himself they put effort into playing closer to our goal, also scoring a goal from 2-0 to 2-1 normally gives The mental advaantage.

    Blaming everything om Valverde was a general statement. I did just come from The "retardo"-thread, you did in fact put most of the blameon valverde. Imo took a caculated risk, and it did pay off in the sense that it secured our advancement, but it did more damage than good. But thats a far cry from "valverde is to blame". Its unlucky, thats the way i would put it. And we should in hindsigh maybe not have played him. But who knows what would have happened IF we didnt sub him, maybe Lyon would have scored, advanced and every valverde hater on this board (leta be honest at least 60-70%) would have blamed valverde for not risking dembele.
    1) Thanks for confirming what I just wrote. 2) Not cautious enough as Dembélé suffered from a relapse which suggests that he was clearly rushed to play too soon hence the relapse of his injury. 3) Good. Then you would have realized that I did not solely put the blame on Valverde but all 3 parties. Hence comments of me "solely putting the blame on Valverde" are inaccurate and quite frankly troll posts. 4) Indeed it is. Expect that he already proved that he can. See the Inter game. Malcom had a MoM performance (arguably) in the CdR semifinal against RM of all teams (before they turned into shit) and they are/were arguably a much stronger team than Lyon. 5) Speculation from both of us but it certainly did not look like that to me.

    General statement. Fair enough. Well, I did not take part in that thread for some time so not sure what I have to do with it. Point it out because I don't see it. All I am saying is that Valverde has the final say as a manager so he is eventually responsible for Dembélé suffering a relapse when clealry not fully fit. That does not mean that the medical staff or Dembélé himself was without blame as I wrote.

    Good that you acknowledge that playing him might not have been such a great idea. My sole point and me being a bit pissed off when I read the news this morning as I consider him to be our second most important offensive player and even more crucial in the CL. That and us not having barely any pacy players with him not around in the attack as Malcom does not exist for Valverde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Havesaks View Post
    Are we going to use 2 select games as examples of a team's (any for that matter) strength now? Is that the logic now?

    But you did kinda use a similar logic with malcom
    Not really. Malcom has played more than 2 games for us and not only that I have an entire sample size of his performances for Bordeaux where he was the best youngster last season in Ligue 1. The same Malcom has also scored 4 goals in 4 games against the same Lyon team as written earlier. So that argument makes no sense. Can't compare a team ranked 27th on UEFA's coefficient list with us nor Malcom with Lyon. The example is a very bad one with all due respect for the aforementioned reasons. Forget the ranking for a while,

    Lyon was bang average in both legs against us barely creating 5 chances while we had over 40 shots on goal in both games combined. Come on, we would have won that game regardless of a barely fit Dembélé entering or scoring that 5-1 goal that Malcom could have scored as well. It was not worth risking him at all. Now that he suffered from a relapse and is out for 3-4 weeks EVEN less so.

    Let me ask you a question. If the same Malcom was able to have a MoM performance against a superior team (RM) in a CdR semifinal at the Camp Nou 1.5 month ago, while scoring a goal in the process, after almost never having played before that said game, as well as him coming off the bench and scoring immediately against Inter in Milano, (similar circumstances after barely playing before and being rusty as well) what makes you think that Malcom could not have impacted our game positively against a tired Lyon team with 25 minutes of the game left with us leading 2-1? The same Lyon team that the same Malcom has scored 4 goals in 4 matches against? Makes zero sense to me. Dembélé is obviously the superior player but the difference between a clearly not fully fit Dembélé (hence his pains during the game as reported by Sport and him eventually getting injured) and a fit Malcom, is not as huge as you claim at all. You are talking as if Malcom was some kind of bum. Far from the case.
    Last edited by Leo_Messi; 15th March 2019 at 12:43 AM.
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    Im on my phone - so i will answer tmrw. Night!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Messi View Post
    You are a bit thick are you not? Thought so. Talk about missing the point (s) completely. Might read what users are writing before engaging in silly debates. Just a friendly advice.



    1) Thanks for confirming what I just wrote. 2) Not cautious enough as Dembélé suffered from a relapse which suggests that he was clearly rushed to play too soon hence the relapse of his injury. 3) Good. Then you would have realized that I did not solely put the blame on Valverde but all 3 parties. Hence comments of me "solely putting the blame on Valverde" are inaccurate and quite frankly troll posts. 4) Indeed it is. Expect that he already proved that he can. See the Inter game. Malcom had a MoM performance (arguably) in the CdR semifinal against RM of all teams (before they turned into shit) and they are/were arguably a much stronger team than Lyon. 5) Speculation from both of us but it certainly did not look like that to me.

    General statement. Fair enough. Well, I did not take part in that thread for some time so not sure what I have to do with it. Point it out because I don't see it. All I am saying is that Valverde has the final say as a manager so he is eventually responsible for Dembélé suffering a relapse when clealry not fully fit. That does not mean that the medical staff or Dembélé himself was without blame as I wrote.

    Good that you acknowledge that playing him might not have been such a great idea. My sole point and me being a bit pissed off when I read the news this morning as I consider him to be our second most important offensive player and even more crucial in the CL. That and us not having barely any pacy players with him not around in the attack as Malcom does not exist for Valverde.



    Not really. Malcom has played more than 2 games for us and not only that I have an entire sample size of his performances for Bordeaux where he was the best youngster last season in Ligue 1. The same Malcom has also scored 4 goals in 4 games against the same Lyon team as written earlier. So that argument makes no sense. Can't compare a team ranked 27th on UEFA's coefficient list with us nor Malcom with Lyon. The example is a very bad one with all due respect for the aforementioned reasons.

    Let me ask you a question. If the same Malcom was able to have a MoM performance against a superior team (RM) in a CdR semifinal at the Camp Nou 1.5 month ago, while scoring a goal in the process, after almost never having played before that said game, as well as him coming off the bench and scoring immediately against Inter in Milano, (similar circumstances after barely playing before and being rusty as well) what makes you think that Malcom could not have impacted our game positively against a tired Lyon team with 25 minutes of the game left with us leading 2-1? The same Lyon team that the same Malcom has scored 4 goals in 4 matches against? Makes zero sense to me. Dembélé is obviously the superior player but the difference between a clearly not fully fit Dembélé (hence his pains during the game as reported by Sport and him eventually getting injured) and a fit Malcom, is not as huge as you claim at all. You are talking as if Malcom was some kind of bum. Far from the case.
    Don't think anyone is suggezting Malcolm is a bum, of course he should have been used more. The simple fsct is at the moment is whatever valverde does he is in in the situation of being damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I understand the frustration at dembele being injured again but when the option is there to use him it is so tempting. And by the way i suggest you learn to accept that other people can have opinions
    Last edited by BigBarcaBoy; 15th March 2019 at 12:48 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBarcaBoy View Post
    Don't think anyone is suggezting Malcolm is a bum, of course he should have been used more. The simple fsct is at the moment is whatever valverde does he is in in the situation of being damned if he does and damned if he doesn't. I understand the frustration at dembele being injured again but when the option is there to use him it is so tempting. And by the way
    Well, I have been critical of Valverde for not using Malcom at all and basically freezing him out (looks like that after he did not get his wanted target the past summer which apparently was a 30 year old Willian for twice the transfer fee, lol) since forever and even more so after Malcom was being frozen out after that arguably MoM performance and goal against a decent RM team in the first CdR semifinal leg before they turned into shit and at a time where they were fighting for all 3 trophies. At a time period where Coutinho was stinking the place up. Yet despite that he did not receive any reward for such a good performance. His first game against RM too moreover in his first season for us. A 21 year old kid.

    Since that game 6 weeks ago Malcom has played the grand total of 5 minutes against Rayo when the game was already decided. Fucking hell, talk about mismanaging a talented player in a completely messed up fashion.

    With Dembélé clearly not being fully fit, hence him starting on the bench, Coutinho stinking the place up continuously (although less so against Lyon in the first half mostly, second half he was invisible and bad) yet the same Malcom does not even get 25 minutes against a Lyon team that he is not only very familiar with but a team that he has scored 4 goals in 4 games against. For the much inferior team in Bordeaux. As written in the previous posts, there are some things that honestly make zero sense to me.

    We might draw pacy and young teams such as Liverpool or Man City tomorrow at noon. If Valverde uses the lineup that I think that he will use (or something close to it) we will have zero pace in the team other than Alba. So risking Dembélé, our arguably second most important attacking player this season and the only attacking option of ours that offers insane/very impressive pace, and him suffering from a relapse is obvious cause of concern and for fans to get pissed. Me included. Even more so when the first thing you read this morning when taking a look at the local press, is that Dembélé is out for 1 month. I was screaming yesterday to take him off when Messi scored that 3-1 goal and not to risk him at all before he was subbed on as I was fearing a relapse. Wrote about it here days before the game. So of course, can't say that I am happy about the decision to risk him! Yes, I get it, injures are part of the game (I have been watching football for 20 years so nothing in the football world will surprise me) and we all commit faults but sometimes you got to use some common sense. This was one such case IMO. You or others might disagree but I won't change my opinion due to that at all.
    Last edited by Leo_Messi; 15th March 2019 at 01:01 AM.
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    Ousmane Dembélé has denied the information of a journalist, who claimed that the winger will miss the quarter-finals of the Champions League and that he had fired his chef two months ago: "You do not know anything at all", wrote the Frenchman on Twitter. [via md]

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    So, it's only to miss the NT break...

    MEDICAL STAFF MASTERCLASS.

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    Sooo..... how long is he injured ?

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    He would be much more important against Liverpool than against United. United will sit deep and counter while Liverpool would probably press high and leave more space in behind

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    Quote Originally Posted by Leo_Messi View Post
    Well, I have been critical of Valverde for not using Malcom at all and basically freezing him out (looks like that after he did not get his wanted target the past summer which apparently was a 30 year old Willian for twice the transfer fee, lol) since forever and even more so after Malcom was being frozen out after that arguably MoM performance and goal against a decent RM team in the first CdR semifinal leg before they turned into shit and at a time where they were fighting for all 3 trophies. At a time period where Coutinho was stinking the place up. Yet despite that he did not receive any reward for such a good performance. His first game against RM too moreover in his first season for us. A 21 year old kid.

    Since that game 6 weeks ago Malcom has played the grand total of 5 minutes against Rayo when the game was already decided. Fucking hell, talk about mismanaging a talented player in a completely messed up fashion.

    With Dembélé clearly not being fully fit, hence him starting on the bench, Coutinho stinking the place up continuously (although less so against Lyon in the first half mostly, second half he was invisible and bad) yet the same Malcom does not even get 25 minutes against a Lyon team that he is not only very familiar with but a team that he has scored 4 goals in 4 games against. For the much inferior team in Bordeaux. As written in the previous posts, there are some things that honestly make zero sense to me.

    We might draw pacy and young teams such as Liverpool or Man City tomorrow at noon. If Valverde uses the lineup that I think that he will use (or something close to it) we will have zero pace in the team other than Alba. So risking Dembélé, our arguably second most important attacking player this season and the only attacking option of ours that offers insane/very impressive pace, and him suffering from a relapse is obvious cause of concern and for fans to get pissed. Me included. Even more so when the first thing you read this morning when taking a look at the local press, is that Dembélé is out for 1 month. I was screaming yesterday to take him off when Messi scored that 3-1 goal and not to risk him at all before he was subbed on as I was fearing a relapse. Wrote about it here days before the game. So of course, can't say that I am happy about the decision to risk him! Yes, I get it, injures are part of the game (I have been watching football for 20 years so nothing in the football world will surprise me) and we all commit faults but sometimes you got to use some common sense. This was one such case IMO. You or others might disagree but I won't change my opinion due to that at all.
    The thing that no doubt swayed ev was thst Malcolm hasn't really made an impact when coming on as a sub whereas dembele is perfect as an impact player, at the moment of course

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigBarcaBoy View Post
    The thing that no doubt swayed ev was thst Malcolm hasn't really made an impact when coming on as a sub whereas dembele is perfect as an impact player, at the moment of course
    And how is that not his fault? If he'd use Malcom more often he'd be more used to playing with his teammates and could actually make a difference when subbed in. Of course he can't make an instant impact when he's playing 1 match a freaking month. You see, this is why Valverde is at fault for Dembele's injury worsening, because he created an environment when only a handful of players can bring the needed difference. Not disputing that Dembele is better than Malcom btw, but it was a match against Lyon, Malcom has some good performances against them from his Bordeaux days already, and sorry, if you have to use a barely fit Dembele to get by, then that is just sad.

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