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Thread: 11 - Ousmane Dembélé

  1. #12046
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    Regarding passing accuracy, career's percentages in this moment from our attackers, former attackers and similar players:
    Pedro 87%
    Messi 84%
    Willian 84%
    Dybala 84%
    Hazard 83%
    Sterling 83%
    Coman 83%
    Benzema 82%
    Neymar 81%
    Coutinho 81%
    Malcom 81%
    Cristiano 80%
    Salah 80%
    Leroy Sane 80%
    Mane 79%
    Bale 78%
    Mbappe 78%
    Alexis 78%
    Martial 78%
    Griezmann 77%
    Gabriel Jesus 76%
    Deulofeu 76%
    Zlatan 75%
    Firmino 75%
    Suarez 74%
    Villa 74%
    Dembele 73%

    Last season at Barca, over 900 minutes, Dembele had 82% passing accuracy.
    On larger samples, a full season:
    Rennes 2016: 72%
    Borussia 2017: 67%

    Malcom, same age, same position:
    Bordeaux 2018: 82%
    Bordeaux 2017: 80%
    Corinthians 2015: 81%

  2. #12047
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    As I mentionned in the Malcom thread, they're very different players. Malcom is already much more mature in his playstyle, and he can even play CAM. Dembele can't. Malcom links up pretty well with other players, and loves to initiates chances and counter attacks. Dembele is more about getting that one killer dribble before crossing/shooting. The pass accuracy percentage doesn't surprise me. And considering their playstyles, even as Dembele improves, Malcom will always keep a higher passing accuracy. I still think Dembele can go higher than Malcom though.

  3. #12048
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    We have enough backpassing merchants in the club, I love the fact that he's such a risk taker. I'll need to put up a gif or two of him making a few dribbles and getting into key positions, but having no one to pass to because no one made a run to the box.

  4. #12049
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    Quote Originally Posted by Laplacian View Post
    We have enough backpassing merchants in the club, I love the fact that he's such a risk taker. I'll need to put up a gif or two of him making a few dribbles and getting into key positions, but having no one to pass to because no one made a run to the box.
    Imagine even worse problems with Messi playing as a false 9, as a lot of fans want.
    Dembele would get to the edge of a box with the ball, Messi would be around the centre of a pitch with Busquets and Rakitic.
    The other winger on the other side, Malcom, would be the only passing option.
    Between him and Malcom there would be probably 4-5-6 opponent's defenders.

    2 vs 4/5/6 all the time.
    No one in the box.
    No one around the box.
    Just 4-5-6 opponent's defenders.

    His only passing options would be: a fullback on his side and Malcom.
    Fullback will do a backpass everytime.

  5. #12050
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    Imagine even worse problems with Messi playing as a false 9, as a lot of fans want.
    Dembele would get to the edge of a box with the ball, Messi would be around the centre of a pitch with Busquets and Rakitic.
    The other winger on the other side, Malcom, would be the only passing option.
    Between him and Malcom there would be probably 4-5-6 opponent's defenders.

    2 vs 4/5/6 all the time.
    No one in the box.
    No one around the box.
    Just 4-5-6 opponent's defenders.

    His only passing options would be: a fullback on his side and Malcom.
    Fullback will do a backpass everytime.
    you really don't know how wingforwards operate, do you?
    Romans 1:19-20
    Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bulgroz View Post
    As I mentionned in the Malcom thread, they're very different players. Malcom is already much more mature in his playstyle, and he can even play CAM. Dembele can't. Malcom links up pretty well with other players, and loves to initiates chances and counter attacks. Dembele is more about getting that one killer dribble before crossing/shooting. The pass accuracy percentage doesn't surprise me. And considering their playstyles, even as Dembele improves, Malcom will always keep a higher passing accuracy. I still think Dembele can go higher than Malcom though.
    Regarding Malcolm, i really wish EV would play him in his natural position for now allowing him to settle in faster. We can leave the experimenting until after.

  7. #12052
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasgas View Post
    you really don't know how wingforwards operate, do you?
    The point is, with two wingers and Messi in the middle, we will always have *Two and a half men* around the box.

    Even the slowest true Cf offers more presence in the box than 31 years old, dropping deep, not moving too much off the ball Messi.

    That is the point.

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    I understand that point. Even with Giroud at the WC he didn't have a single shot on target but his movement and positioning opened up space for Greizmann and Mbappe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jairzinho View Post
    I understand that point. Even with Giroud at the WC he didn't have a single shot on target but his movement and positioning opened up space for Greizmann and Mbappe.
    During a World cup, and after a final, some journalists asked coaches in a studio: what do you say about Giroud?
    He had zero gaols, zero memorable movements.
    Why is he playing?

    Coaches replied: his main duty is not to score goals or to dribble and make moves for Youtube videos.
    His main purposes are:
    1. to have 2 defenders on his back which will leave more free space and less defenders for main threats: Griezmann and Mbappe.
    2. when they boot a long ball upfield, he can receive the ball with the back turned to a goal, hold on the ball and wait a few seconds until Griezmann and Mbappe get into better positions
    3. when an opponent's park a bus, you can throw crosses at him (for headers)
    4. he is good in defending

    If you don't have Giroud and you have a better player, like Dembele, it is actually harder for Griezmann and Mbappe because he will have less Cbs on his back.

    So, even though a player like him offers zero Barca's DNA traits, in 2018', a Cf like him is more useful for almost every team than a pure Barca's DNA Cf (Gabriel Jesus for example).
    Not everything needs to be related with awesome passing, awesome technique, and awesome movement.
    You always need some players to do this job in attack (Cf), and players with similar, less fancy duties in midfield (Rakitic, Van Bommel, Cocu etc).

    Again, there is a reason why in the last 10 Champions league finals, in 9 occasions winning teams had a good, old, true, classic Cf:
    2009: Barcelona, Etoo
    2010: Inter, Diego Milito&Etoo
    2011: Barcelona: -
    2012: Chelsea: Drogba
    2013: Bayern: Mandzukic
    2014: Real, Benzema
    2015: Barcelona, Suarez
    2016: Real, Benzema
    2017: Real, Benzema
    2018: Real, Benzema

    2014: Germany, Klose + Argentina, Higuain
    2016: Portugal, CR7 + France, Giroud
    2018: Giroud, Mandzukic, Lukaku, Kane

    Once again, the only time where a false 9 worked was:
    2011: Barcelona Champions league
    2012: Spain, Euro 2012

    After that moment, both Spain and Barcelona started to have weak results on the biggest stage against big teams.
    1. is it because Xavi declined?
    2. or because the opponents figured out how to neutralize that false-9 system?
    3. or the players from BOTH Spain and Barcelona started to run and move less, as some people here (imo, wrongly) believe?

    Imo, No2 is a main reason, even though Xavi's departure also had a huge impact.
    Last edited by BBZ8800; 28th August 2018 at 03:37 PM.

  10. #12055
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    We play nothing like that France side, though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    Regarding passing accuracy, career's percentages in this moment from our attackers, former attackers and similar players:
    Pedro 87%
    Messi 84%
    Willian 84%
    Dybala 84%
    Hazard 83%
    Sterling 83%
    Coman 83%
    Benzema 82%
    Neymar 81%
    Coutinho 81%
    Malcom 81%
    Cristiano 80%
    Salah 80%
    Leroy Sane 80%
    Mane 79%
    Bale 78%
    Mbappe 78%
    Alexis 78%
    Martial 78%
    Griezmann 77%
    Gabriel Jesus 76%
    Deulofeu 76%
    Zlatan 75%
    Firmino 75%
    Suarez 74%
    Villa 74%
    Dembele 73%

    Last season at Barca, over 900 minutes, Dembele had 82% passing accuracy.
    On larger samples, a full season:
    Rennes 2016: 72%
    Borussia 2017: 67%

    Malcom, same age, same position:
    Bordeaux 2018: 82%
    Bordeaux 2017: 80%
    Corinthians 2015: 81%
    A quick comparison analysis on team buildup, assists, and forward play in the final third with players like Griezmann, Willian, and Alexis and you will find that Dembele blows them out the water.

    If he loses the ball more often, it's because he is attempting riskier passes, has a higher level of creativity than many players. He is the definition of a bunker buster... someone who can penetrate through a parked bus.

    As he grows with the team, his passing percentage will improve, but I don't care if they reach levels of others, I care if he is providing a consistent goal/assist/buildup involvement threat and making us dynamic.

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    Don't know if i would call Benzema a classic CF, when CR7 was there he seemed to play more as a false 9 actually.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BusiTheKing View Post
    We play nothing like that France side, though.
    Apparently your literal interpretation caused you to lose sight of the big picture. His point is that you can sometimes employ players in the field, even if they are not necessarily quite similar to the typical Barca profile, so that they perform duties that will enable the remaining players to excel

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    Quote Originally Posted by kattanib View Post
    Apparently your literal interpretation caused you to lose sight of the big picture
    lol

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