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Thread: 11 - Ousmane Dembélé

  1. #7246
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessiCam View Post
    Barcelona have faced 214 shots on goal in 22 games. That’s nearly 10 per game... Eibar... Fucking Eibar has faced only 182. Man City only 174 in 27 games... Napoli also 182 in 24 games...
    Just one thing. I think that it's important to note that a lot of these shots are from outside the box, because MATS was known to have brainfarts during those, so the teams are trying. Unsuccessfully, though.

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    Shots on goal is not the whole story. Been through this before.

    As much as anything it is the type of chances giving away more than how many shots the other team gets.

    Eibar who have conceded 34 have a better defence than Atletico who have conceded 9 and Real Madrid have a better defence than Barca?

    Who knew.
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 10th February 2018 at 10:12 PM.

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    DEMBOUZ!!!!

  4. #7249
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    Quote Originally Posted by FCBfan22 View Post
    Just one thing. I think that it's important to note that a lot of these shots are from outside the box, because MATS was known to have brainfarts during those, so the teams are trying. Unsuccessfully, though.
    It’s the same with other teams. Barça aren’t special in that regard.

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    He's going to be a huge asset, whether he starts or comes off the bench. His speed entering the game when the defenders are already tired, I can't wait.

    13 players will play in every big game, Dembele will be one of them. It does not make much difference who starts, all will play plenty.

  6. #7251
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamDav1982 View Post
    Shots on goal is not the whole story. Been through this before.

    As much as anything it is the type of chances giving away more than how many shots the other team gets.

    Eibar who have conceded 34 have a better defence than Atletico who have conceded 9 and Real Madrid have a better defence than Barca?

    Who knew.
    Again. That’s not the point. The point is teams are fashioning more chances against us. MaTS has been absolutely huge for us. He has saved a ridiculous amount of clear cut chances. So there are high quality chances in there.

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    It's not that firm as you make it out. We don't play a flat 442 - it's easily transformed, Iniesta is no winger etc. 433 doesn't guarantee numerical superiority.
    Being vulnerable to counters is not due to formation, it's due to the players we use. Raki, Busq, and Iniesta are gonna be slow no matter what way you organize them. They are not gonna run much, either. If we had Kante, it might be different, as Z. points out.
    If you don't see we are more compact when defending, we are probably not watching the same matches.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MessiCam View Post
    Again. That’s not the point. The point is teams are fashioning more chances against us. MaTS has been absolutely huge for us. He has saved a ridiculous amount of clear cut chances. So there are high quality chances in there.
    The quality of chances have to matter as well and no top team has ever really been without GK at top of game.

    Who do you think has the best defence in europe?

    Having a strong defence is not about the number of chances created it is about the quality of them.
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 10th February 2018 at 11:06 PM.

  9. #7254
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joan Laporta View Post
    It's not that firm as you make it out. We don't play a flat 442 - it's easily transformed, Iniesta is no winger etc. 433 doesn't guarantee numerical superiority.
    Being vulnerable to counters is not due to formation, it's due to the players we use. Raki, Busq, and Iniesta are gonna be slow no matter what way you organize them. They are not gonna run much, either. If we had Kante, it might be different, as Z. points out.
    If you don't see we are more compact when defending, we are probably not watching the same matches.
    Playing with 3 central midfielders is better than 2. It always has been. There is a reason why teams who dominate possession tend to play with it.

    Here are the xG’s per formation

    Here are the xG’s per shot zone

    This we’re better defensively is a complete myth.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MessiCam View Post
    Playing with 3 central midfielders is better than 2. It always has been. There is a reason why teams who dominate possession tend to play with it.

    Here are the xG’s per formation

    Here are the xG’s per shot zone

    This we’re better defensively is a complete myth.
    Myth that the likes of Messi in the team believe and a myth backed up by goals conceded.

    From what I can see there the expected goals against is less for 4-4-2.

    While expected goals for is not far off twice as much.

    Is that correct?

    Also in terms of La Liga Barca have the lowest expected goals against per game which points to tougher chances despite slightly more shots?

    Lowest expected goals of any team in La Liga, EPL and Bundesliga as well.
    Last edited by JamDav1982; 10th February 2018 at 11:17 PM.

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    Gotta be honest, I prefer 433 too. We're doing well so no real complaints, but defensively although we're more solid than under Enrique, we're nowhere near as good as the stats suggest in my opinion. We give up clear chances consistently, and Ter Stegen plus poor finishing saved us. Against a defensive Valencia we were solid enough, but against Alaves I think it was we could easily have been 2 down, against Sociedad more like three. I worry a good counter attacking team would rip us open to be honest. Though then again I've always been a worrier.
    Last edited by ASordidGod; 11th February 2018 at 12:56 AM.

  12. #7257
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    Quote Originally Posted by MessiCam View Post
    Playing with 3 central midfielders is better than 2. It always has been. There is a reason why teams who dominate possession tend to play with it.

    Here are the xG’s per formation

    Here are the xG’s per shot zone

    This we’re better defensively is a complete myth.
    Again being ignorant. We play hybrid 4-4-2 and dominate possession more than any team even Pep's city.

    Tell us again how best defense in Europe sucks, will ya.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MessiCam View Post
    Playing with 3 central midfielders is better than 2. It always has been. There is a reason why teams who dominate possession tend to play with it.
    What's the difference between Iniesta's positioning in 442 and 433 so you conclude he's playing that a different role?

    Here are the season heatmaps for 2017/18 (442, mostly) and 2015/16 and 2016/17 (433, mostly):
    2017/18.:
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    2016/17.:
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    2015/16.:
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    These are very similar - considering his age and everything. You can't expect him to play around the circle. His role hasn't changed much, fact.
    I wouldn't say there's a central midfielder less in 442. There is about the same of them, if not more when the RM is occupied with the midfield. That's what I was trying to prove.
    Last edited by Joan Laporta; 10th February 2018 at 11:46 PM.

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    ^^^

    I doubt heatmap tell everything like his interaction with players around him in 433 vs. 433
    I have a bad feeling that whenever a lesbian looks at me they think “That’s why I’m not a heterosexual”.

  15. #7260
    MessiCam
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joan Laporta View Post
    What's the difference between Iniesta's positioning in 442 and 433 so you conclude he's playing that a different role?

    Here are the season heatmaps for 2017/18 (442, mostly) and 2015/16 and 2016/17 (433, mostly):
    2017/18.:
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Iniesta 18.jpg 
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    2016/17.:
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ID:	7662
    2015/16.:
    Click image for larger version. 

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    These are very similar - considering his age and everything. You can't expect him to play around the circle. His role hasn't changed much, fact.
    I wouldn't say there's a central midfielder less in 442. There is about the same of them, if not more when the RM is occupied with the midfield. That's what I was trying to prove.
    Thanks for this... But for a player as involved in just about everything as Iniesta is its best to have a look at average position. It becomes very evident that Iniesta play quite a bit wider in the 4-4-2.

    Look at his positioning here. He is playing a lot closer to the centre circle. As he should be.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Now look at his positioning in a 4-4-2.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is seen in basically all the games but truth be told I don’t like his positioning in the 4-3-3 either because he is having to do the same thing for Suarez as Rakitic did for RW Messi. It works better now because Iniesta can play on the wing but you’d ant him more centrally.

    I still think that Messi and Suarez can’t coexist if you want a balanced squad.

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