Thomas Lemar

BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Jombi said:
Where do you come up with these numbers? These are self-serving numbers you just make up on the fly. You dont judge players as individuals at all. Since you refuse to answer the question, I conclude that you were against signing Neymar, Umtiti, Nelsinho and Lemar for 25m euros. You claim its hindsight that Lemar should have been bought, but look back and see what I said about Lemar, Andre Gomes and Paco last year. To you, they were and are all the same, because they are young. To people who judge players individually they are not. I never wanted Gomes. Lemar and Fabinho should have been bought. We should have bought a LB that could cover as RB and the forward should be able to play multiple positions up front. This is not hindsight. It was common sense then and it was common sense now. You probably didnt want Gomes either because he was young. But that doesnt mean we should dismiss the signing of Naby Keita for example, just because he is also young. You argue against Goretzka on the cheap as well. It seems you have a very odd way of looking at players. You claim that 22-23 year olds need at least 2 years before they can even perform at a decent level for us. So we still have to wait and see if Umtiti can perform? Where do you come up with such ideas? No player is risk free. Not even so-called "immediate impact" Ibra, Arda and Cesc.
Click to expand...

20%, is my estimation, based on Barca's last 20-30 years.
Or, check La Masia, percentages are around 5-10% there.
Or check all young players with potentials, bought by big clubs, follow them for 5 years and then do the maths.

I am not interested in this hindsight regarding Lemar for 25M because I don't know how many other players you or others proposed back then.
For example, if you said in 2016: we need to buy Lemar, xx, yy and zz.
And 2 years later, Lemar turned into a great player and 2 others stayed meh, then again, the same thing happened as always. 1 out of 4 or 5 young gems made it and others failed.

So, since I don't know HOW MANY players you proposed in a summer 2016 and you are using a hindsight now.
Do the test, write down NOW 10 players who are NOW (October 2017) worth 20-30 Millions and who look like a good deals (Goretzka is everyone's favorite currently).
Find 5-10 more Goretzkas for whom you think that we should buy NOW, and we will together follow them for 2-3 years.

Then, I am quite sure, you'll see how 7-8 of those current Goretzkas will fail, as always.

It is easy to pick one example who turned out to be good and say: I told you so.
Again, is Lemar the only guy whom you wanted in a summer of 2016?
Were there some other fullbacks, defenders, midfielders, attackers, who looked good back then and nothing (special) happened in their development later?

Further, I have no idea why are you mentioning Semedo.

I will write it in a simple way:
1. Semedo for 30-40M=do it
2. Lemar for 25M=do it, but don't buy 5 Lemars for 25M in one summer. Pick 1-2 the most perspective youngsters and bet ONLY on them
3. Lemar this summer for 120M=lol, hell no

Why are you putting Semedo and Lemar in the same sentence?
Semedo and Umtiti are the kind of somewhat cheaper transfers with young gems what we should do.
Lemar for 120M is beyond crazy and unreasonable.

And one more time, I am not against YOUNG players.
I AM AGAINST buying ONLY young players.
And I amn against buying 5 youngsters in one summer (a crazy risk which will probably end as a disaster).

Again, write down 10 names who are hot deals TODAY, worth 20-30-40M.
Then we'll follow them, and you'll see that the board isn't THAT dumb. It is more likely that fans are too naive and too enthusiastic about any young player out there.
 
J

Jombi

New member
BBZ8800 said:
20%, is my estimation, based on Barca's last 20-30 years.
Or, check La Masia, percentages are around 5-10% there.
Or check all young players with potentials, bought by big clubs, follow them for 5 years and then do the maths.

I am not interested in this hindsight regarding Lemar for 25M because I don't know how many other players you or others proposed back then.
For example, if you said in 2016: we need to buy Lemar, xx, yy and zz.
And 2 years later, Lemar turned into a great player and 2 others stayed meh, then again, the same thing happened as always. 1 out of 4 or 5 young gems made it and others failed.

So, since I don't know HOW MANY players you proposed in a summer 2016 and you are using a hindsight now.
Do the test, write down NOW 10 players who are NOW (October 2017) worth 20-30 Millions and who look like a good deals (Goretzka is everyone's favorite currently).
Find 5-10 more Goretzkas for whom you think that we should buy NOW, and we will together follow them for 2-3 years.

Then, I am quite sure, you'll see how 7-8 of those current Goretzkas will fail, as always.

It is easy to pick one example who turned out to be good and say: I told you so.
Again, is Lemar the only guy whom you wanted in a summer of 2016?
Were there some other fullbacks, defenders, midfielders, attackers, who looked good back then and nothing (special) happened in their development later?

Further, I have no idea why are you mentioning Semedo.

I will write it in a simple way:
1. Semedo for 30-40M=do it
2. Lemar for 25M=do it, but don't buy 5 Lemars for 25M in one summer. Pick 1-2 the most perspective youngsters and bet ONLY on them
3. Lemar this summer for 120M=lol, hell no

Why are you putting Semedo and Lemar in the same sentence?
Semedo and Umtiti are the kind of somewhat cheaper transfers with young gems what we should do.
Lemar for 120M is beyond crazy and unreasonable.

And one more time, I am not against YOUNG players.
I AM AGAINST buying ONLY young players.
And I amn against buying 5 youngsters in one summer (a crazy risk which will probably end as a disaster).

Again, write down 10 names who are hot deals TODAY, worth 20-30-40M.
Then we'll follow them, and you'll see that the board isn't THAT dumb. It is more likely that fans are too naive and too enthusiastic about any young player out there.
Click to expand...

The reason I mention Lemar, Fabinho, Umtiti, Ney etc is because you use the same arguments against all young quality players. Its not about "proposing". Everyone has favorite players we should go for. If those are impossible, then we go "down the list". You can then say, oh look at priority 5, he turned out to be bad. Lemar and Fabinho should have been the no. 1 priorities. We bought Gomes instead. The only young player I rated that we bought in 2016 was Umtiti. I didnt want the others. We bought almost exclusively young players (I think 6?). Then you use Barca's terrible track record as an argument against signing any young quality player.

You are not arguing against buying ONLY young players. Time and time again, you argue against signing young players no matter what the price is. You were against Ney as well right? Did you use arguments about past young flops? You are saying you supported signing Umtiti instead of some star from a rich club and didnt argue against Umtiti by talking about Chygrynskiy or whatever? I have never argued for signing Lemar for 120m. Thats silly because its not good value in the market. I wouldnt even sign him for 90m. The main issue I have with your arguments is that you simply dont treat players as individuals. You just see "Young=look at Andre Gomes or some other young flop". So you argue against Goretzka as well even though he's dirt cheap. And then use some strange logic that they need at least two years to even perform at a decent level for us which is clearly nonsense.
 
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BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Jombi said:
The reason I mention Lemar, Fabinho, Umtiti, Ney etc is because you use the same arguments against all young quality players. Its not about "proposing". Everyone has favorite players we should go for. If those are impossible, then we go "down the list". You can then say, oh look at priority 5, he turned out to be bad. Lemar and Fabinho should have been the no. 1 priorities. We bought Gomes instead. The only young player I rated that we bought in 2016 was Umtiti. I didnt want the others. We bought almost exclusively young players (I think 6?). Then you use Barca's terrible track record as an argument against signing any young quality player.

You are not arguing against buying ONLY young players. Time and time again, you argue against signing young players no matter what the price is. You were against Ney as well right? Did you use arguments about past young flops? You are saying you supported signing Umtiti instead of some star from a rich club and didnt argue against Umtiti by talking about Chygrynskiy or whatever? I have never argued for signing Lemar for 120m. Thats silly because its not good value in the market. I wouldnt even sign him for 90m. The main issue I have with your arguments is that you simply dont treat players as individuals. You just see "Young=look at Andre Gomes or some other young flop". So you argue against Goretzka as well even though he's dirt cheap. And then use some strange logic that they need at least two years to even perform at a decent level for us which is clearly nonsense.
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I never wanted a clown Neymar here and my opinion is still that the clown has never actually improved our team comapred to our level before him.
At the best, we remained the same before him and with him.

About very young players in general, yes, I am not a fan of 18, 19, 20 year olds unless if they are out of this world.
Buying Ronaldinho aged 23, Etoo aged 23, Coutinho/Griezz etc aka more proven players with 3-4 good seasons on a high(est) level is my pick.

You coulkd reply now: well, if big teams will steal players before us, we are screwed then.
Ok, things ahve changed from days of Ronaldinho and Etoo surely.

My picks:
1. always buy Coutinho/Griezmann when they are available (and 100M for Griezmann is peanuts in today's market)
2. buy players aged 18-20 for high prices (let's say 100M) ONLY if they are out of this world, once in a generation potential. That is NOT current Lemar, Martial, Dybala, Goretzka etc
3. buy players aged 18-21 if the prices are low and it is worth the risk (Marlon, Mina, Denis, Halilovic, Isco, Asensio, other Real's recent midfielders)
3. splash 100M for a slightly more proven players aged 22-23-24 (Ronaldinho, Etoo style) if they are available for okish prices like 100-150M, and if a board is quite sure that he will be a good fit

But, when you read our forum, people more or less say: "We should buy EVERYONE", every single young player out there who walks and plays football.
And if we don't, then the baord is stupid and doesn't understand football and scouting.

For example, I have opened a last few pages of our transfer rumors, and these are some of names whom we should buy, according to people:
1. Maxime Lopez
2. Ferran Torres
3. Goretzka
4. Emre Can
5. Dahoud
6. Lemar
7. Soler
8. De Light
9. Gimenez
10. Mina
11. Seri
12. De Vrij
13. Zouma
14. Lucas Torreira
15. Malcom
16. Arthur
17. Martial
18. Rashford
19. Werner
20. Icardi

Lately, it feels as if every user is yelling: "buy everyone".

People cried for Samper, and now the same people would want Goretzka.
How on Earth will Samper get chances then?
Plus, how on Earth will Alena get chances then?

I know, those people probably have a magical solution: let's sell Iniesta, Rakitic, Arda, Gomes, Paulinho and let's play Samper, Goretzka, Alena (Dembele and Lemar), lol.
That would end really well. Something like Arsenal...
 
J

Jombi

New member
BBZ8800 said:
I never wanted a clown Neymar here and my opinion is still that the clown has never actually improved our team comapred to our level before him.
At the best, we remained the same before him and with him.

About very young players in general, yes, I am not a fan of 18, 19, 20 year olds unless if they are out of this world.
Buying Ronaldinho aged 23, Etoo aged 23, Coutinho/Griezz etc aka more proven players with 3-4 good seasons on a high(est) level is my pick.

You coulkd reply now: well, if big teams will steal players before us, we are screwed then.
Ok, things ahve changed from days of Ronaldinho and Etoo surely.

My picks:
1. always buy Coutinho/Griezmann when they are available (and 100M for Griezmann is peanuts in today's market)
2. buy players aged 18-20 for high prices (let's say 100M) ONLY if they are out of this world, once in a generation potential. That is NOT current Lemar, Martial, Dybala, Goretzka etc
3. buy players aged 18-21 if the prices are low and it is worth the risk (Marlon, Mina, Denis, Halilovic, Isco, Asensio, other Real's recent midfielders)
3. splash 100M for a slightly more proven players aged 22-23-24 (Ronaldinho, Etoo style) if they are available for okish prices like 100-150M, and if a board is quite sure that he will be a good fit

But, when you read our forum, people more or less say: "We should buy EVERYONE", every single young player out there who walks and plays football.
And if we don't, then the baord is stupid and doesn't understand football and scouting.

For example, I have opened a last few pages of our transfer rumors, and these are some of names whom we should buy, according to people:
1. Maxime Lopez
2. Ferran Torres
3. Goretzka
4. Emre Can
5. Dahoud
6. Lemar
7. Soler
8. De Light
9. Gimenez
10. Mina
11. Seri
12. De Vrij
13. Zouma
14. Lucas Torreira
15. Malcom
16. Arthur
17. Martial
18. Rashford
19. Werner
20. Icardi

Lately, it feels as if every user is yelling: "buy everyone".

People cried for Samper, and now the same people would want Goretzka.
How on Earth will Samper get chances then?
Plus, how on Earth will Alena get chances then?

I know, those people probably have a magical solution: let's sell Iniesta, Rakitic, Arda, Gomes, Paulinho and let's play Samper, Goretzka, Alena (Dembele and Lemar), lol.
That would end really well. Something like Arsenal...
Click to expand...

OK, so you used the argument about past flops who were younger than 25 against signing Neymar as well. But Ney clearly didnt turn into some dud, regardless of what you think of his departure. Players you call "immediate impact" older players like Ibra, Vidal, Cesc, Arda or Vermaelen however hardly set the world alight for us. The number of older flops are high as well for us. Its not an age thing for us. Our scouting is just bad in general.

Did you warn against signing Umtiti as well? Did you bring up unrelated Chygrynskiy or some other flop? You most likely did and wanted some player you call "immediate impact" star instead. Just like you are arguing against Goretzka on the cheap as well. He will be 23. If a player is younger than 25 and not some star from a rich club, chances are, you are against signing that player and will bring up past Barca flops.

Look at the players from that list, do you think every poster believe every player should be bought? Or do you think each poster has their own favorite? Do I believe we should buy those 20 players? Do I even rate all of those players? Of course not. Malcom is the stand-out player from that list for me. And I'll add Pulisic. Goretzka is a great opportunity in the market. Will you argue against signing those players? Very likely yes.

Of course we shouldnt ignore opportunities in the market just because the player is a starter for a rich club or is older like Coutinho. But these transfers are ridiculously difficult. If Coutinho is available for 100m, why not. But lets be realistic here.

We should always be after young players who dominate the best leagues in the world (lets say top 6-7 leagues in the world) and still play for a smaller team. These are players who are actually available. You could buy those for maybe 20-25m a couple of years ago, but that is long gone. And you seem to conflate those players with 18 year olds from the Macedonian league or whatever. Those types are just Barca B material at best. You are saying that 22-23 year olds need at least 2 years to even perform at a decent level for us. 18 year olds from some backwater league of course will need at least that amount of time, but thats not what we are talking about here.
 
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M

MessiCam

Guest
BBZ8800 said:
I never wanted a clown Neymar here and my opinion is still that the clown has never actually improved our team comapred to our level before him.
At the best, we remained the same before him and with him.
Click to expand...
I disagree. Neymar was an artist on that left wing... The problem was Lucho and the system he implemented. Neymar cannot take the blame for that and I think it's disingenuous of Barca fans to even contemplate that he offered nothing.

1. Maxime Lopez - Not now, no denying his talent though.
2. Ferran Torres - As a Barca B player, maybe.
3. Goretzka - Nope
4. Emre Can - Hell No!
5. Dahoud - Nope
6. Lemar - Nope
7. Soler - Nope
8. De Ligt - Yes, he is a baller. Could be developed into a player covering for Busquets as well.
9. Gimenez - Nope
10. Mina - Already done and it's a marvelous signing at that price
11. Seri - Nope. Don't see what the fuss is about with this dude. People should get over trying to replace Xavi. There is just nobody like him. Give Roberto a chance.
12. De Vrij - Nope, how many centre backs do people want?
13. Zouma - Nope. As above.
14. Lucas Torreira - Nope
15. Malcom - Don't know much about him.
16. Arthur - The West Ham left back? If so, hell no.
17. Martial - Yes, I think he is very good.
18. Rashford - Yes, Anyone between him and Martial.
19. Werner - Maybe, lets see how our need for a centre forward position develops over time.
20. Icardi - As above.
Click to expand...
Just what I think and yeah, it's crazy that people want Barca to sign everyody.
 
J

Judoman

Senior Member
This guy+Fekir>>>Griezmann

We cover multiple positions. Both have room for progress. Both would be fine with rotating, which suits us.
Selling few players and getting these two would make us stacked and ready for future. Barto would have pull a 180 in a 1 year.
 
M

manuel blassi

Member
The club has this obsession with Griezmann and we dont realy know how will our CB situation be (How will Mina integrate) which should be priority. So no money for Lemar, at least not in 2018 and also doubt that he wil stay in Monaco for more than this year. For me he is luxury signing that is not realy needed so much as controling MF, but would welcome him with open arms
 
Nothanks

Nothanks

New member
So what happened with this guy?

i remember half of the forum wanted him last summer now he's disappeared to the 7th page on other players and seems like not many clubs are fighting for him like last summer
 
xXKonan

xXKonan

Senior Member
Nothanks said:
So what happened with this guy?

i remember half of the forum wanted him last summer now he's disappeared to the 7th page on other players and seems like not many clubs are fighting for him like last summer
Click to expand...
He has a bad season apparently and some Monaco fans seem to dislike him now because of his poor attitude this season. Probably has to do with his failed moves in August and he was probably miffed that he couldn't leave.
 
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