The State of the European Cup?

Heath don't judge teams by they are now.. some of those teams were really strong then vanished (Not. Forest for example )

Beast said:

Heath don't judge teams by they are now.. some of those teams were really strong then vanished (Not. Forest for example )

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i know that Beast and i'm not taking them lightly,but even then a few leagues shared the majority of the wins.
holland had 4 consecutive and then germany and england shared the next 11 titles so i'm not sure what's different overall

imo,the bigger (perceived) teams tend to win the biggest trophies and as far as i can see,not much has changed,apart from to win it requires you to play twice as many matches,and against possibly the 1st,2nd and 3rd best teams from the strongest leagues at any given time.
which does sound slightly more difficult....no?

shadows said:

Except for the final..Man Utd of 2008-09
Inter(known chokers), Porto , Arsenal(over rated)!

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so,6 group games,Italian champions,Portuguese champions,and a team you couldn't beat (i'm assuming you're a l/p fan) this season....:$

Heath Newton said:

just 2 points.
1.best teams.......



...........some of them.

2.harder to win,ignorant of the facts.

1977-78

1st Round
Liverpool - Bye

2nd Round
Liverpool 6–3 Dynamo Dresden

(Q/F)
Benfica 2–6 Liverpool

(S/F)
Borussia Mönchengladbach 2–4 Liverpool

Final
Liverpool 1–0 Club Brugge

that'll be a very difficult 7 matches then.
can you tell me any time in the last 20 years that any team has had it that easy??

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Damn dude, you really know little outside United, don't you? M'glabdach was one of strongest teams at that time and ten times better than today's Porto or Arsenal. They had Allan Simonsen, a Golden Ball winner at that time, Berti Vogts, Bonhoff, Schafer, Jupp Heinkes who were some of best players and the core of that great German team of the 70's. They were the only opponent of Bayern, that Bayern who won 3 European cups.

Then Benfica and Brugge are not what are they today. You are talking crap. It's like comparing Nottingham Forest of 70's with Nottingham of today

Guardian said:

Damn dude, you really know little outside United, don't you? M'glabdach was one of strongest teams at that time and ten times better than today's Porto or Arsenal. They had Allan Simonsen, a Golden Ball winner at that time, Berti Vogts, Bonhoff, Schafer, Jupp Heinkes who were some of best players and the core of that great German team of the 70's. They were the only opponent of Bayern, that Bayern who won 3 European cups.
Then Benfica and Brugge are not what are they today. You are talking crap. It's like comparing Nottingham Forest of 70's with Nottingham of today

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i didn't,strictly speaking mean the opponents were easy,more that 7 games to win the european cup doesn't sound too much of a stretch compared to the slogfest of nowadays.
please read my earlier post \/ and tell me if i was dissing any teams particularly.

Heath Newton said:

i know that Beast and i'm not taking them lightly,but even then a few leagues shared the majority of the wins.
holland had 4 consecutive and then germany and england shared the next 11 titles so i'm not sure what's different overall
imo,the bigger (perceived) teams tend to win the biggest trophies and as far as i can see,not much has changed,apart from to win it requires you to play twice as many matches,and against possibly the 1st,2nd and 3rd best teams from the strongest leagues at any given time.
which does sound slightly more difficult....no?

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oh,and i accept your apology that you deliberately mis-read my thoughts . :wink: :beer2:

Heath Newton said:

i didn't,strictly speaking mean the opponents were easy,more that 7 games to win the european cup doesn't sound too much of a stretch compared to the slogfest of nowadays.
please read my earlier post \/ and tell me if i was dissing any teams particularly.



oh,and i accept your apology that you deliberately mis-read my thoughts . :wink: :beer2:

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That was the beauty of the competition. Every team could knock out the other, a small mistake and the team is out. You lost to Everton and Portsmouth in the FA cup at Old Trafford and they aren't better by any means, are they? And Belgrade, Bucharest, Kiev were hell of places to visit, all Eastern European teams had the power to keep all their good players, at that time they were allowed to have no more than 3 foreigners and the competition was as tough as it is now, but teams from more countries were involved.

Actually the fact that we watch almost the same teams in the knock out stages means that the group stages are pointless, it is just a way to generate more and more money.

imo,the bigger (perceived) teams tend to win the biggest trophies and as far as i can see,not much has changed,apart from to win it requires you to play twice as many matches,and against possibly the 1st,2nd and 3rd best teams from the strongest leagues at any given time.
which does sound slightly more difficult....no?

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bigger teams? what does mean bigger team? In the past teams like Steaua, Red Star, PAO, Brugge won or at least reached the final, how many teams from Belgium, Scotland, Greece, Hungary, Serbia, Romania can do that now. Even teams from Germany, France, Holland, Portugal struggles to do it, it's all about few clubs from the ex G-14 , am I right?

Heath Newton said:

so,6 group games,Italian champions,Portuguese champions,and a team you couldn't beat (i'm assuming you're a l/p fan) this season....:$

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I'm a Cule and Not a liverpool fan firstly..

Italian champions they maybe but they are traditional European chokers, Porto and Arsenal are the easiest draw anyone could get..Hell when the draw was made, even you would have said we are already in the final!

Yep, someone should tell Isaac Newton that this is a Barcelona forum and not Liverpool's one, I don't know why he sees a Liverpool fan behind every post, that 1:4 should have stressed him a lot...:biggrin: Joking, newton guy

Guardian said:

That was the beauty of the competition. Every team could knock out the other, a small mistake and the team is out. You lost to Everton and Portsmouth in the FA cup at Old Trafford and they aren't better by any means, are they? And Belgrade, Bucharest, Kiev were hell of places to visit, all Eastern European teams had the power to keep all their good players, at that time they were allowed to have no more than 3 foreigners and the competition was as tough as it is now, but teams from more countries were involved.
Actually the fact that we watch almost the same teams in the knock out stages means that the group stages are pointless, it is just a way to generate more and more money.

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i don't disagree with you,but i'm still saying that regardless of format,good bad or indifferent,it's harder to win than it was.

Guardian said:

bigger teams? what does mean bigger team? In the past teams like Steaua, Red Star, PAO, Brugge won or at least reached the final, how many teams from Belgium, Scotland, Greece, Hungary, Serbia, Romania can do that now. Even teams from Germany, France, Holland, Portugal struggles to do it, it's all about few clubs from the ex G-14 , am I right?

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yes,and that's why i wrote (perceived )

shadows said:

I'm a Cule and Not a liverpool fan firstly..
Italian champions they maybe but they are traditional European chokers, Porto and Arsenal are the easiest draw anyone could get..Hell when the draw was made, even you would have said we are already in the final!

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apologies for mistaking you for a scouser first and foremost :$
and re the draw,you might have thought that but it wasn't how i feel/felt.
i'm an eternal pessimist i'm afraid and can always spy disaster looming around the next corner,regardless of what recent history and performances have proved to me.

You know what Heat, I think you're very calm and intelligent lad. I think your posts make sense and I hope you keep posting here even after the CL final.

I wish they could do the group randomly. OK you might get a crap group and the 4 best teams in the competition but it would be more exciting.

Without doubt the European cup or the Champions league as some call it is losing its cutting edge . I have faith in Platini to turn it around though next season there is no seeds for the group stage which could throw up a group of United , Barca , Porto , Bayern Munich which would be more intresting .

The new format gives the smaller clubs a better chance to qualify for the next round which may be a bit crap the first few years but once some make more money they will improve as clubs.

Guardian said:

You know what Heat, I think you're very calm and intelligent lad. I think your posts make sense and I hope you keep posting here even after the CL final.

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:hmmm:
i think you're being nice G,and as such.thank you.
i will.
i've liked barca since before mark hughes went there though i'd never really thought about coming somewhere like this til the final was confirmed tbh.

Red Devil said:

The new format gives the smaller clubs a better chance to qualify for the next round which may be a bit crap the first few years but once some make more money they will improve as clubs.

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woah woah woah there fella,if i'm gonna get castigated for a mis-read bigger club comment,why haven't you been :chop: yet.....

it's ok....i'm gettin my coat,i know where i'm not wanted.:wavecry:.i'm gonna move to bridgend now.

while I would like a return to the KO competition just for the sheer level of epic it would be, the european cup is only losing its magic because of the constant presence of the english in the latter stages. yeah it may never have had the magic of the KO tournament but it was still good viewing.

and I dispute that magic issue anyway, no team has won the CL back to back, or three times in a row (as happened TWICE in a row in the 70's, oh yeah, sheer magic!) much less FIVE times in a row! we haven't had 7 years of winners from the same f'n country nor a final as fucking atrocious as '91 - people are needlessly romanticising it because it's the past. alright in the 60's it was clearly the tits, but the 60's (and late 50's, to be fair) was awesome all-around for football.

and bollocks to it being harder to win back then. you can't argue it's losing it's magic coz of all the top teams and then say it's also easier to win. it most definitely is harder to win now because you play more top-teams full of top-players.

you needed more luck on your side to win back then. KO tournaments always have an element of luck to them, which is why everyone always says a league win is the barometer of a truly great side (which is why kaka can stick that undeserved ballon d'or up his arse). I like the european cup, and while I would find the return of a straight KO tournament fun for the unpredictability (although again, how real is that?) and excitement of knockout football, it's fine the way it is especially as platini, inch by inch, is creating more diversity in the tournaments makeup.





I agree with eddy that playing teams from the same country with any regularity is boring, which is why I'd like entries cut down even further. in fact I had an idea for reshaping european competition that would actually be a very interesting experiment to prove whether people honestly believe these things they say or if they're just having a whinge coz they can.

reintroduce the cup winners cup for cup-winners. straight KO.

champions league is for champions only. straight KO.

all that's inbetween (so like, places 2-6 in the top leagues) is the europa league. make it as big, bloated and convoluted as you like. group stages, four-legged ties, whatever. go nuts!

I can almost guarantee you that more people would watch the europa league.

this is like when fans of the NFL say they wanna see more old fashioned "smash-mouth football", but then when someone actually gives them that (XFL) they realise that "smash-mouth football" was kinda underwhelming and lacked the glitz of the modern game, so they stuck with their shiny new product. or when man utd won the club world cup and everyone saying that it's shit because of the other teams being unknowns - well that's bollocks, they all won their respective continental competitions and earned the right to be there. if fifa started admitting big teams willy nilly people would then say it has no prestige. and it's not an auto-win for europe, we went there with a superior attitude and got beat, so did liverpool.