Copa: Atletico Madrid - FC Barcelona 2-3

footyfan said:

I know you say that right now, but this set of 3 games really reminds me of the Clasico games from 3 years ago in the 11/12 season.

1-3 win at Bernabeu (La Liga) - convincing win, tactically out-smarting and technically superior football.
1-2 win at Bernabeu (Copa del Rey 1st leg) - less convincing win, Messi genius assist to Abidal gets the winner.
2-2 draw at Camp Nou (Copa 2nd leg) - very similar to today's game, did not look like the team was in control but managed to score 2 anyway. Less of a melt-down from the opposition though.

I think it really mirrors this past month vs Atleti. With each passing game, the level of dominance reduced and the opposition got to grips with how to game the new system from Barca.

Let's just hope the next league game doesn't have the same parallels.

Click to expand...

True. Hopefully that's not the case.

My point was that it reminded me of the second leg of last seasons CL game with Atleticos high intensity. We fell apart then whereas this time we got 3 goals and won. We can't always play perfect football. There will always be 1 game a season where you just have to trade blows with the opponent and that can be a difference between trophies and no trophies.

Every successful counterattack needs excellent execution, otherwise we would see 8-10 goals per game. Or sometimes some luck, but luck was not involved in Barca's counters yesterday. Besides, Alba moving fast on the left wing is not and (has never been) occasional thing, but part of the strategy. And thing is, i think lack of control was actually part of the strategy as well, considering the pitch, ageing Xavi and presumed intensity by the Atleti.
You may say that red card changed everything, but I really really doubt that Atleti could have maintained that kind of intensity for more than 50 minutes, this is just inhuman actually. So it was obviuos that you just need a little bit patience (and that did not work actually), lack of mistakes in defence (and their first was actually a blunder by the defence) and deadly counter (that we know the trident is capable of). So I would say it was intentional strategy, to score a sucker punch in the counter that will kill the tie actually. There were some twists to this strategy (wrong penalty for Atleti) and some questionable defending on the left, but in overall, I could argue that Lucho had it tactically under control. Referiing mistakes aside, it should have been 2-2 at half, at that could have killed that game as well as did red card did.

That run by alba from box to box is the exact copy of his goal against milan were we won 4-0.
Just Amazing Alba.

BerkeleyBernie said:

Simeone knew that Barcelona had finally started learning how to get the better of their deep defense, and also needing 2 goals, he took a strategic risk by having Atletico play a pressing game on the return leg. It had the exact effect he anticipated- Barcelona was overrun, and couldn't control the game. Mascherano's intercepted pass leading to the Torres goal, while particularly poor, was forced by Atletico pressure, as was the interception. Atletico pretty much controlled the game early on.

Click to expand...

The days of Barca controlling games are over, they may come back when we have the right midfield though. But if the Atleti games are any indication, it may be a blessing in disguise because if the other team have the ball then they have to do something with it, and their only 2 options is to either:
1) pass it between them in their own half (which is suicidal, unless you have a team that can actually play possession football) or,
2) push it forward, which is even better since it creates the space that MSN need to do their magic.

BerkeleyBernie said:

What Simeone couldn't anticipate (and neither could Barça, to be honest), was how well Barça would use the available space when they *did* get the ball; it's a situation Barça hardly ever encounters. Nor could he anticipate exactly how well his own team would deal with unfamiliar advanced pressing tactics instead of their usual deep-lying disciplined formation. The first counterattack could not have been executed any better- Messi's release, Suarez inch-perfect pass, Neymar's threaded finish. It required perfection to be successful, and (this time), the stars (s.i.c.) aligned. The second counterattack was successful entirely because of the insane one-of-a-kind goal to goal sprint of Jordi Alba (and, to some degree, the lapse in play by Atletico because of the uncalled hand ball). Save for these moments of brilliance, Atletico was dictating play, and Barcelona was scrambling not to concede more.

Click to expand...

The reason teams park the bus against us is because they know what will happen if they give us enough space (remember the 5-0 against Real). So I'm not sure why Simeone or Barca couldn't anticipate it, when everybody else does.

BerkeleyBernie said:

While Barça should be pleased with how it was able to execute counters (for once given the space to do so), the counterattacks were clearly *reactive* to Atletico limiting them from being able to do anything else. Fortunately, the counters succeeded because of the brilliant execution by the players, but one must not take away the impression that this was a strategic choice, nor that Barça was in control of the game.

Of course, everything changed with the red cards. Even assuming hypothetically Atletico could keep 11 players on the pitch, they may have faltered as the game wore on (as most high pressure teams do), allowing Barcelona to finally take control of the pitch. But it does leave the door open to speculating how Barça will fair against a high-pressing team (i.e. Bayern) who executes it better than the usually deep-defending Atletico.

Click to expand...

IMO, an aggressive high-pressing style only plays to our strengths. We have the weakest midfield lineup since the Rijkaard era, but we have the best attack since (ever?). So parking the airbus is arguably a more viable strategy than it was in the past, because it forces us to dictate the pace of the game – which we still can, but not like we used to – and that means that our success becomes dependent on our weakest link –*the midfield. But if you try to play like Atleti did, then the winner of this game will be the team that can capitalize on its goalscoring chances better than the other; so it really becomes a matchup between MSN vs whomever –*and I'm not sure what the downside of that.

footyfan said:

I know you say that right now, but this set of 3 games really reminds me of the Clasico games from 3 years ago in the 11/12 season.

1-3 win at Bernabeu (La Liga) - convincing win, tactically out-smarting and technically superior football.
1-2 win at Bernabeu (Copa del Rey 1st leg) - less convincing win, Messi genius assist to Abidal gets the winner.
2-2 draw at Camp Nou (Copa 2nd leg) - very similar to today's game, did not look like the team was in control but managed to score 2 anyway. Less of a melt-down from the opposition though.

I think it really mirrors this past month vs Atleti. With each passing game, the level of dominance reduced and the opposition got to grips with how to game the new system from Barca.

Let's just hope the next league game doesn't have the same parallels.

Click to expand...

Not exactly.

I thought yesterday's match was better than the one in the first leg. In 2012 it was the opposite. RM could've and probably should've scored 5 or 6 goals in that 2nd leg Copa game while Atletico were never really threatening. Also I felt we had enough control yesterday. Maybe not convincingly controlling the ball, but controlling the spaces which is more important.

There's simply a difference between Atletico parking the bus two times at the Camp Nou and then throwing the kitchen sink at home.

Mythical Revolution said:

The reason teams park the bus against us is because they know what will happen if they give us enough space (remember the 5-0 against Real). So I'm not sure why Simeone or Barca couldn't anticipate it, when everybody else does.

Click to expand...

Two flaws in that argument:

1) Lucho's is an entirely different Barça midfield/frontline tactically than the Pep era. This iteration hasn't been given much space to work with (at least not by a top team). While still a technically excellent team, how well space would be used by Lucho's "Lineup of the Day" is still uncertain.

2) There are two kinds of "giving space." One is to chase the ball in one's own half, which I agree is suicidal. No one does that anymore, as Barça is simply too good at keepball and working the ball between the lines, if too far apart. The other is to press high up the pitch and make it difficult for Barça to play out of their *own* half. We haven't seen this tactic much against Lucho's Barça (I don't recall any such games once Suarez was in the lineup) and this is the kind of giving space that creates the potential for counterattacks. We've seen previous post-Pep Barça midfields start to crack under this kind of pressure, though most teams can't sustain the pressure much into the second half. Atletico was largely successful against this Lucho/Suarez/Rakitic Barça in preventing them from playing the ball out. But no one really knew how well Barça might counter *if* they could get out.

Needing both to contain Barça and chasing two goals, a high press was a reasonable gamble by Simeone, and required exceptional play on the counter to be defeated.

Rasix.He is just too good.

Sent from my LG-D855 using Forum Fiend v1.2.12.

BerkeleyBernie said:

Save for an own goal and Alba's fortunate arm block, the scoreline would have been 2-1 Atletico at the half (or, if we rule out the bad call on the Mascherano penalty, 1-1).

Click to expand...

You're forgetting Neymars wrongly disallowed goal here, which in my book makes up for Albas arm block. And not counting Mirandas own goal would be silly as Suarez was pressuring him at his back like crazy leaving him with a very difficult clearance, or Suarez would very likely have scored. It didn't happen by itself. You're not giving us enough credit here.

If we only look at the first half as a representation of the game, as the second was pretty dead with first Gabi being sent off during the break and Mario Suarez' red as well, then the conclusion is still that Barca won the first half deservedly. Any way of counting "fortunate" situations in a way that somehow undermine our 3-2 scoreline at halftime is simply not giving us enough credit in my opinion. I can't follow that line of thought at all.

Enrique has completely cracked the code on how to beat this Atletico team, and hopefully in the process other "bus" teams as well, by being much more direct, pragmatic and embracing the tempo and "the fight" at the expense of some control. And we have a good enough defense and keeper to open the game up like this now. I absolutely love it. Finally we're actually doing counterattacks when the opportunity presents itself. Having this as a part of our repertoire is so important, it makes us more unpredictable and leave us with more options when we face different opponents.

Kohe321 said:

You're forgetting Neymars wrongly disallowed goal here, which in my book makes up for Albas arm block. And not counting Mirandas own goal would be silly as Suarez was pressuring him at his back like crazy leaving him with a very difficult clearance, or Suarez would score. It didn't happen by itself.

If we only look at the first half as a representation of the game, as the second was pretty dead with first Gabi being sent off during the break and Mario Suarez' red as well, then the conclusion is still that Barca won the first half deservedly. Any way of counting "fortunate" situations in a way that somehow undermine our 3-2 scoreline at halftime is simply not giving us enough credit in my opinion.

Enrique has completely cracked the code on how to beat this Atletico team, and hopefully in the process other "bus" teams as well, by being much more direct, pragmatic and embracing the tempo and "the fight" and the expense of control, which can only happen once you have more trust in your defense and keeper. I absolutely love it. Finally we're actually doing counterattacks when the opportunity presents itself.

Click to expand...

I agree. Apart from torres goal, atletico wasn't that thretening. the Steven didn't have to make many crucial saves. They had an irregular pk, and Barça had an wrongly offside call before that pk, that would had changed the game drastically. I think the team was giving up posession on purpose, and they were absorbing atletico's attacks well.

I don't think we could expect Barça to control the game in the calderon. Atletico aren't minions.

Look at that... the ref let too many nasty fouls go unpunished.

Flavia said:

Look at that... the ref let too many nasty fouls go unpunished.

Click to expand...

Awful, dangerous tackles, we are lucky that no one got injured really.

Ghostmaster said:

Awful, dangerous tackles, we are lucky that no one got injured really.

Click to expand...

Exactly, it was disappointing to see how ATM resorted to vicious dangerous tackles in the second half. They should have finished the game with about 8 men, disgraceful.

The foul on Alba by Garcia was savage.

Mario suarez, Gabi and a couple other players were literally trying to break leo's effing ankles. now they wanna talk about neymar's dribbling. gimme a break.

They look like losers in every meaning of the word after this game.