6 - Carles Alena
- Thread starter raki
- Start date
I think only Aleña deserve promotion this year. Some people will say Jose Arnaiz but apart from his clinical shooting ability he doesn't look like he's ready to play for the first team.
Others we should watch more of: Oriol Busi and Cuenca. Oriol have looked very good from what I have watched and Cuenca was a fucking bargain signing, one of the best in Barca B and he is only 17 years old. Wow his defensive skills and passing ability are awesome.
Others we should watch more of: Oriol Busi and Cuenca. Oriol have looked very good from what I have watched and Cuenca was a fucking bargain signing, one of the best in Barca B and he is only 17 years old. Wow his defensive skills and passing ability are awesome.
God Serena
New member
"Apart from Alena" is no defense at all, he alone is proof enough that Valverde is ignoring the B team. Why didn't we see Arnaiz, Oriol, Alena, Palencia, etc. in the CL? Too busy focusing on results? Or maybe Denis and Gomes needed time to gel with the team?
What a joke.
What a joke.
Raketa10
Senior Member
Because in this moment Arnaiz, Oriol, Palencia, etc. are not better than Paulinho, Gomes, Alcacer, Vidal, Denis etc. simple as that. Only player who deserves promotion is Alena and he will get his chance next year for sure. If Valverde continues ignoring Alena next season than we can talk about neglecting young players.
Why would you play Palencia and in what position? Is he better RB than Roberto or Semedo? Come on, if he wasn't from La Masia no one would even care about him. Same goes for Arnaiz. Where would you play Arnaiz? We are stacked in attack and we'll be even more if Griezmann comes so there is no chance Arnaiz will play in our first team next season. Oriol is for sure interesting player but the boy just turned 19 FFS he has a lot of time in front of him and he is still very raw. If he continues improving he will get his chance as will Cuenca.
Also what would playing Alena in 1 CL game and 10 or 15 minutes in 3 or 4 La Liga games change? Absolutely nothing apart from the fact that he would have 150 minutes more with our first team. IMHO it was much better for him to spend this entire season in Segunda playing 90 minutes every game because jumping from Tercera to La Liga would be impossible and he would basically sit out 90% of our games. He'll for sure have his place in our first team next season but you'll see that he will struggle in his first year for sure. Regardless of his talent it won't be easy jump from him, difference between Segunda and La Liga is huge.
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BBZ8800
Senior Member
Xavi in the same age as Alena in 2017/18 season=27 matches
Xavi in the same age as Alena in 2017/19 season=38 matches
Iniesta in the same age as Alena in 2017/18 season=17 matches
Iniesta in the same age as Alena in 2017/19 season=46 matches
Busquets in the same age as Alena in 2017/18 season=41 matches
Busquets in the same age as Alena in 2017/19 season=52 matches
Puyol and Pedro "exploded" aged 22 though.
But, Alena is already way behind in his development and in his first team experience compared to our famous Xavi-Iniesta-Busquets trio when they were aged 20, that needs to be said.
** About other La Masia kids and how Lucho/EV don't care about them, tbh, majority of them turned out to be very average players. NOT because coaches didn't give them chances.
Munir, Sandro, Adama, Halil, Samper wouldn't turn into beasts just because we gave them more chances.
Apart from Alena, whom I don't rate as highly anymore as 2 years ago, there is more or less no one who looks like a future Barca's starter.
But, that's the reality of La Masia and this is how it looked ALWAYS except in that lucky era.
But I would dare to say that 10-15 years ago we probably had the best scouting network and we "stole" 100s of gems from around the world, BOTH domestic and foreign kids. So, MAYBE even 10-15 years ago La Masia wasn't "as golden as we think" but we just played good in scouting and stealing young kids. After our boom and success, RM, AM, Bayern, Chelsea, Man City and others started to do the same, so it is way harder for us to find new Messi, Iniesta and Busquets who came to La Masia as quite old players, compared to early 2000s. Also, in the past, we were "stealing" 10s of foreign kids with the highest potential from all over the world, but now we were punished by FIFA for that and we can't do that anymore.
So, if we consider some of the things from above (plus, an insane luck with Xavi and some players), it is quite reasonable to think that we will never again be able to replicate 2000s and our La Masia's success.
So, maybe you guys should really lower your expectations and accept that the times have changed.
15 years ago, La Masia was one of a kind and we were doing some shaddy bussiness tbh.
Today, 10-20 clubs in the world are doing the same what we are doing, plus we aren't allowed to buy 10 foreign prospects per year.
The competition is tougher, our "pool" for picking players is way smaller and other teams are copying our system.
For example:
In early 2000s:
Man Utd was buying youngsters only from UK and Scandinavia (Sweden, Norway, Denmark mostly)
Arsenal was buying young English and French players only.
Liverpool was buying only young UK and French players.
Chelsea didn't exist as a rich club back then.
Man City was in the 2nd div.
Tottenham? Lol, they were a crap.
Bayern was buying only German and eastern European talent.
Barca and Real were buying South American and Spanish talent.
Psg didn't exist.
AC Milan did some scouting back then.
So, when Barca wanted a young Spanish kid back then=only RM and Barca were able to buy him.
Today, you have to fight with RM, AM, Sevilla, Porto, Man Utd, Man City, Arsenal, Liverpool, Bayern for him.
When Barca wanted a young Brasilian, only RM, Barca and AC Milan were after him.
Today, if there is a young Brasilian: Barca, RM, AM, Sevilla, Porto, PSG, Bayern, MAn Utd, Man City, Chelsea, Liverpool, Arsenal will be after him.
When Barca wanted a young Korean kid on 2000: only Man Utd and Barca were interested.
If there is a young Korean gem today=ALL big clubs will chase him.
So, this is a huge difference.
All in all, maybe Lucho and EV aren't THAT dumb and clueless.
Time will tell.
But once again, when you compare a level of quality of Xavi, Iniesta, Messi, Busquets and similar with Adama, Halil, Munir, Sandro, Dongou, Samper and similar, maybe there is something in the theory which I have wrote above.
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Lol Barca are only buying spanish/catalan players from every age group between 6-19 years. The scouting plan is so find the most talented players around Spain and Catalunya. Barca buy players and then teach them the Barca DNA. Lol this is happening every year and the only competitions we have is Real Madrid, but we even beat them in almost every signings because of our famous academy and project. Lol south americans we sign are for the future and they are already experienced. We buy south Americans for Barca B or for the first team. Players like Busquets, Roberto, Pedro, Iniesta, Fabregas, Alba and Puyol was bought from other spanish/catalan teams. Messi is an exception, but he moved to Barcelona for personal reason and since he was very talented Barca wanted sign him. And it was only possible to sign him because he moved to Spain/Catalunya. The plan has always been the same: find the most talented players from every age group in Spain/Catalunya and teach them the barca way of playing. Xavi, Pep, Valdes and Pique started their career in Barca from a young age, not other countries. They became the future. Munir, Sandro and Adama were not. But the plan is still the same. And the youth players will either go to Barca or Real because they are the biggest. If they are catalan no doubt they will go to Barca. If they are spanish then it's a competition, but we are the favourites to sign them because of our project. But ofc there are few exception like Kaptoum and Halilovic or few others, but 95% of signings are from Spain and Cataunya. Thats Barca's sporting plan in la masia.
You don't rate Aleña because he didn't play many game as Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets for the first team? Remember that the expectation are higher now too. But nobody expect Aleña to be good as them, but remember that Xavi, Iniesta and Busi played two seasons in Barca B like Aleña will do before promotions. Also they got more chances because Van Gaal and Rikjaard trusted them. Also the focus was on la masia thanks to cruyff. Also we had Joan Laporta that focused on our academy unlike Barto. Only because la masia produced one generation players few years ago doesn't mean we should lower our expectations. It was not in 90's we produced Roberto and Thiago f.ex? Not long time ago Barca produced them and they are from our famous academy la masia. They don't have to be Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busi to succeed in Barca. If they are on the level as Thiago and Roberto I will take that. Our academy has been praised as the best by famous people like Joachim Low and other people that have visited la masia because of our sportinf plan and training.
And by the way we have so many talented players in la masia and I'm sure some of them will succeed and you will see that. Even in spain national youth teams Barca have the most players called up in every age group to represetant the national team. Every year we can have up till 4-5 players from Barca in every age group. The worst you will see is maybe only two players called up and that happens only few times. You can hate on Aleña as much you want, but I'm sure you didn't rate Roberto highly too and he proved you wrong. I rather let Aleña develope in peace and see if he can succeed. You can hate on Denis Suarez because he is still 24 yeaes old and bang average, but please don't hate on Aleña until he's 24 himself. Lol Lucho sold Grimaldo to Benfica because he trusted Adriano more. And now Adriano is in Besiktas and Grimaldo with masterclass games with Benfica.It's absolutely shocking how many talented players we have and thats why I'm not scared of our future if Real Madrid beat us in signing top class first team players. Why? Because they don't have la masia. You will see how good our academy is in few years ☺
You don't rate Aleña because he didn't play many game as Xavi, Iniesta and Busquets for the first team? Remember that the expectation are higher now too. But nobody expect Aleña to be good as them, but remember that Xavi, Iniesta and Busi played two seasons in Barca B like Aleña will do before promotions. Also they got more chances because Van Gaal and Rikjaard trusted them. Also the focus was on la masia thanks to cruyff. Also we had Joan Laporta that focused on our academy unlike Barto. Only because la masia produced one generation players few years ago doesn't mean we should lower our expectations. It was not in 90's we produced Roberto and Thiago f.ex? Not long time ago Barca produced them and they are from our famous academy la masia. They don't have to be Messi, Xavi, Iniesta and Busi to succeed in Barca. If they are on the level as Thiago and Roberto I will take that. Our academy has been praised as the best by famous people like Joachim Low and other people that have visited la masia because of our sportinf plan and training.
And by the way we have so many talented players in la masia and I'm sure some of them will succeed and you will see that. Even in spain national youth teams Barca have the most players called up in every age group to represetant the national team. Every year we can have up till 4-5 players from Barca in every age group. The worst you will see is maybe only two players called up and that happens only few times. You can hate on Aleña as much you want, but I'm sure you didn't rate Roberto highly too and he proved you wrong. I rather let Aleña develope in peace and see if he can succeed. You can hate on Denis Suarez because he is still 24 yeaes old and bang average, but please don't hate on Aleña until he's 24 himself. Lol Lucho sold Grimaldo to Benfica because he trusted Adriano more. And now Adriano is in Besiktas and Grimaldo with masterclass games with Benfica.It's absolutely shocking how many talented players we have and thats why I'm not scared of our future if Real Madrid beat us in signing top class first team players. Why? Because they don't have la masia. You will see how good our academy is in few years ☺
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Raketa10
Senior Member
I don’t think it’s fair to compare Alena with our best midfielders of all time. We would all be happy if Alena gets even near them. Also those were different times, we are now oriented only towards results and above all that managers in our B team who should develop and prepare players for the first team are IMHO bellow required level. Regarding Xavi’s case, when he started to play for Barca we had much weaker team than today so it was much easier to get minutes. On the other hand Iniesta is for me the best midfielder ever so I don’t like to compare any midfielder to him.
I understand your concern regarding Alena but let’s be fair he doesn’t have to be on the level of Xavi or Iniesta to be a very good player. We might wait for a few decades to see new Xavi or Iniesta but that doesn’t mean that we can not function with slightly less talented midfielders. In either way next season we’ll find out if he can be our future or not.
I am just curious why don’t you rate Alena anymore like you did 2 years ago? IMHO he is having a very good season with Barca B and he just turned 20. He has a powerful shot and very good passing capabilities. He also looks quite intelligent on the field, it’s not like he has a brain of Deulofeu and he doesn't look scared like Samper did.
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Catta
Senior Member
It's easy to see why some of us don't rate him anymore, and don't believe in him. You don't have to compare him with Xavi and our other legends, but lets compare Alena with some other players. At Alenas age, Thiago was already in his second full season with the first team and played that season over 40 matches, Sergi Roberto was in his first full season for the first team and played around 20 matches, Rafinha was a key player for Celta a first division team, Denis the ghost was at loan at sevilla and played over 30 matches for them, Gomes was an important player at Valencia and one of the best young players in la liga.
As you can see all of them were much more promising than Alena and already somehow established first division players. Maybe Alena explodes next season with the first team, you never know, but now it looks more like he will be another jonathan dos santos.
As you can see all of them were much more promising than Alena and already somehow established first division players. Maybe Alena explodes next season with the first team, you never know, but now it looks more like he will be another jonathan dos santos.
khaled_a_d
Senior Member
Thaigo,Rafinha, were in last season with best team at same age (well 3 and 2 months younger to be precise) and Roberto stayed even one more year with B team before joining first team
serghei
Senior Member
Valverde showed youth development is not a priority for him in this season when he snubbed the Barca B players in the Sporting game at home. It doesn't get any clearer than that. Game at home, with no pressure, against a top opponent. Guardiola always used these games to give youth a chance.
JamDav1982
Senior Member
Chances are none of them will be good enough for that so entirely likely.
There is a lot of rose tinted views of Guardiolas time that he threw in youngsters at any given opportunity. He didnt and it seems to be massively influenced by that one CL game he played a lot of youngsters as if he dit that across hid whole 4 years.
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tacticvarium
New member
[tw]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Barcelona are planning a smaller first team squad for next season: 21 or 22 players (including Aleñá). This could also lead to more opportunities for Barcelona B players. [md]</p>— barcabstuff (@barcabstuff) <a href="https://twitter.com/barcabstuff/status/976552526689452033?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">March 21, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script> [/tw]
Hope this is true
Hope this is true
God Serena
New member
So who goes? Denis, Vidal, Iniesta, Mina (?)
Or maybe Gomes actually leaves. Unlikely but it'd be a dream.
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