6 - Carles Alena

God Serena

New member
He's not going to get any game time over Suarez, Gomes or Arda though so why not loan him out???

Arda is a winger or at least should primarily be one and his time age will make him expire soon, Denis is the exact opposite type of player of Alena, and Gomes the only real competition, and even then he's not exactly non-displaceable in the lineup.

Besides, two seasons with the B team will be good enough for him to develop, I think.
 

navidjaan

New member
Because loaning someone very talented out and thinking it's a good decision every time just because it worked with one player is an illusion created by Lucho and his staff. If they are promoted, he should stay at Barça B.
 

olih21

New member
Arda is a winger or at least should primarily be one and his time age will make him expire soon, Denis is the exact opposite type of player of Alena, and Gomes the only real competition, and even then he's not exactly non-displaceable in the lineup.

Besides, two seasons with the B team will be good enough for him to develop, I think.

I can guarantee you that Arda and Suarez will play in midfield more than out wide. Aside from injury or suspension Messi & Neymar will not miss games, especially after the Alabes result.

Aliens will get 0 first team action this season (personally I think he should) outside of the copa del Rey or if we have 1st in our CL wrapped up early.
 

olih21

New member
Because loaning someone very talented out and thinking it's a good decision every time just because it worked with one player is an illusion created by Lucho and his staff. If they are promoted, he should stay at Barça B.

If they are promoted I completely agree, lots to do before that tough.
 

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Because loaning someone very talented out and thinking it's a good decision every time just because it worked with one player is an illusion created by Lucho and his staff. If they are promoted, he should stay at Barça B.

There more often than not a gap between proving you are too good for B team and being able to get sufficient minutes in first team.

That is why loans are in place and the players will want to go out and develop rather than being stuck in limbo barely playing.

All major teams and managers do it not just 'Lucho and his staff'.
 
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tacticvarium

New member
If B team fails to be promoted then I believe it's better for his development to leave on loan if you consider how the club's philosophy has changed under Rosell and Bartomeu. Another season at B team will do no good for him. With Lucho as the first team coach, his playing time with the first team will be very limited (maybe few CdR matches?) even if he stays. I want our most talented canteranos to stay but you have seen how Samper's development was stalled after playing for B team too long. Samper was supposed to leave on loan when Denis went to Sevilla.
 

navidjaan

New member
It's Aleñá's first season at Barça B. Of course he should stay there another season, especially if they promote. Samper, who was a bigger talent when he first promoted, stayed at Barça B for 3 seasons, which was one too many. Loaning players out is an illusion created by Lucho. It has nothing to do with Rosell and Bartomeu. The coaches from 2010-2014 didn't use the loan option like Chelsea do. Just an illusion created by Lucho, and we're all falling for it because he wins trophies. Not one loan under him has been good and the only loan in recent history that has benefited a Barça player was Rafinha. There is no argument whatsoever that this is actually a good thing for players in their struggle to come back to Barça. Barça is a place like no other. When you've grown up in this system, it's hard for you to change. That's basically the essentials of La Masia which makes it easy for all you players to adapt to the first team. But when you send these players away, they have a hard time adapting to the other team's new system and when they return, they will not only have a bad season in the bag which with Lucho's logic only means you can stay if you're a player he bought himself, but it also means your "Barça sense" has been messed up. You have now started to think in other ways of playing football. Samper will be the perfect example of that. Been playing at Barça since the day he started at football. Now he's at a club which is known for their defending under a coach that plays the 4231, not the 433 with Samper as the pivote like he's played his whole life. And already now, you can see how much he's been struggling to adapt to the new role, as he is not an advanced midfielder.

Loans are an illusion. Better to stay at Barça or be lucky enough to loan them out to a team with a coach that's going to be Barça's the next season (Rafinha).
 

Messi983

Senior Member
So you think it's better for Alena to play 400 minutes for our first team than 2.500 minutes for a team like Granada, Gijon,...? I don't. Yes, playing in different system that they are used to can be difficult and they need time to adapt but sometimes you need to go out of your comfort zone to improve and I also think that players we are really counting on for the future should play regular top level football when they are 19 or 20. Loans are not always perfect but we need to consider every player as individual case not just say "ah, previous loans didn't really work out so we shouldn't loan anyone ever again".

Recent loans:
- you mentioned Rafinha
- Bojan, Montoya and Tello were loaned because we didn't really count on them anymore, so it doesn't really matter how good loans worked for them
- Deulofeu was ok during his loan at Everton and later failed with Sevilla but at that time Lucho already decided that he won't count on Gerard so was it really important how he played at Sevilla? Even if he'd have a great season there he most likely wouldn't come back because Lucho didn't like what he saw from him in preseason he made with first team.
- Denis was also solid during his limited playing time at Sevilla and of course he was great for Villarreal (yes, I know he was sold with buy-back but we can also consider that as some sort of loan now that we got him back as much improved player)
- Halilović couldn't make it at Gijon despite strong connections betwen Abelardo and Barça/Lucho. I wouldn't consider his loan there as a total waste of time because he played well in first half of the season and I think he improved during that time but later didn't prove that. But can we really blame Abelardo or Gijon for that or maybe Alen just doesn't have enough work ethic, mentality,... to make a breakthrough at team like Gijon. And of course, if he can't make it there he wouldn't get playing time in Barça either. I still like Halilović and hope he can show enough improvement at HSV so we decide to bring him back but more I think the more it seems like [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] might be right about him.
- it's still to early to say how Samper and Munir loans will work out

Did I miss someone?

Did loans really influence on any of these players career negatively or would they still be part of our first team now had they stayed here in the past instead of going on loan (not counting Samper and Munir here because obviously they would be here now had they not go on loan this season but important thing is would they improve more staying in Barça than going on loan and it's too early to answer to that question)? I don't think so. If anything we could maybe argue that players like Montoya or Bartra would have bigger possibilities still being here had they go on loan when they were 20-22 instead of playing for Barça B and later not getting enough playing time because of worldclass players like Alves and Pique/Puyol/Abidal/Masche before them at their positions.

So again, loans are not always good but they can be if you find the right club/coach. Just because some previous loans didn't work out for different reasons doesn't mean that next loans won't be a success for our players. If Alena (and other youngsters) is as good as we hope he is, if he'll have right work ethic and mentality he can adapt to another system/team for a one or two year loan, get La Liga experience and return as improved player (like Denis) and then wait/fight for his playing time in Barça. I think he can improve much more that way than with playing in Segunda or Segunda B or by playing 500 minutes for our first team if he's promoted over the next year or two.
 
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khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Denis was a success too and we used loans b4 Lucho with Gerard,Rafinha&&Botia
Loans aren't perfect nor keeping the player in,it needs a true sporting vision to see the best choice for developing a player. Because there is no single formula for developing everyone.
 

Jallo

Member
I don't see any reason why Aleña couldn't compete or even beat out any of the our current midfielders. He has what it takes I say when he's ready throw him in there. If he's as good as he looks he will and we think, then he going to be just fine. The guy is 18 and pretty much carrying the b-team on his back, that special.
 

navidjaan

New member
I don't see any reason why Aleña couldn't compete or even beat out any of the our current midfielders. He has what it takes I say when he's ready throw him in there. If he's as good as he looks he will and we think, then he going to be just fine. The guy is 18 and pretty much carrying the b-team on his back, that special.

I think so too. Rakitic is looking sloppier and sloppier, while Denis is still adapting, and Iniesta declining with a lot of rests needed. Gomes is going to play DM a lot too, while Rafinha primarily gets minutes on the wings. Arda has been great so far this season, but who knows what will happen in the last half of the season. A Cesc is not impossible.

Above all, I think Aleñá should stay with Barça B next season, especially if they are promoted. Through in some first team games too throughout next season and then promotion in 2018.
 

God Serena

New member
How is he doing?

He's starting every single game for Barca B and playing every single minute. It's kind of hard to imagine this B team side without him in it, he's kind of their midfield general.

He's one of the very few that all coaches (Including Lucho) sees as having a first team future. I haven't been able to watch the B team as much as I'd like since their relegation, but from what I've been able to watch, it's clear to see why he's so highly rated. If he makes it he could be our best midfielder since Busquets.
 

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