barcafan161
Active member
Problem is Dortmund will lose their two best players most likely. They need to keep their best players to have any chance.
Bundesliga
- Thread starter xavisionary
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Precious 3 points for Stuttgart after beating Wolfsburg at home, finally getting out of the last place. Didavi was good, Timo Werner had two one on ones that got wasted.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Goosebumps. 
[youtube]RKUrWXG7QH4[/youtube]
[youtube]RKUrWXG7QH4[/youtube]
Donauwelle
Member
Of course they don't have the consistency. Their squad is simply not comparable to Bayern's who even with half of their team injured can field the strongest starting lineup in the entire league.Which makes me ask why Dortmund are actually expected to challenge Bayern for the title? Even with today's loss against Cologne they've got 38 points after 17 matchdays, which is a points tally Klopp's Dortmund only surpassed once and is normally enough to be top of the league. With Bayern gifted penalties left and right and Dortmund getting screwed a few times I'd say that's not bad at all.
The way Bayern have destroyed the league by buying out the competition, it will take a much longer time to break this stranglehold. Let's also not forget Dortmund had 23 points less last year at this stage. Barring a meltdown in the second half of the season, they'll comfortably reach the Champions League. Maybe then they can strengthen the squad and mount a proper challenge.
Bayern did not buy out the competition - how people just can repeat this all the time when it is so wrong.
And sometimes people should appreciate performance, too. Bayern does not play pretty right now and scaps wins - but that is something that has to be done sometimes, too. Dortmund - especially without injuries - is as dominant to other teams as Bayern is. Without the Bayern match they won all of the clutch matches against the big teams - like Bayern lost only to Gladbach. But - it shows mentality and will to win all that matches against the small ones. And it is exactly that matches where you feel the injuries the most. The point difference simply cannot be blamed right now on Bayern's better squad and money... You can do that for the direct matches against each others or the other competitors - but as I told - despite the 5:1 that is not were Dortmund failed.
raskolnikov
Well-known member
Taking away Götze and Dortmund weakened Dortmund significantly. Also showed them to be way inferior to Bayern when it comes to financial pull, players not eager to join and others start to leave as well.
Bayern dismantled them while they didnt need both players.
They killed the league and failing in the cl partly due to it is fitting punishment for them.
Bayern dismantled them while they didnt need both players.
They killed the league and failing in the cl partly due to it is fitting punishment for them.
Donauwelle
Member
Götze never really was the goat at Dortmund - he was not Messi - he was just the next Messi. Lewy was without contract...
That were the only significant player transfers from Dortmund to Bayern - at times when Dortmund has ended the season 25 and 19 points behind Bayern. And - Dortmund did buy enough other expensive substitutes.
Sahin and Kagawa played much bigger roles in that Dortmund team before they were sold to United and Real - and that was after Dortmund's title years. Have you heard that Real or United destroyed Dortmund...
I think that Neuer was much more important to Schalke - and is to Bayern - I have not heard that Bayern destroyed Schalke - and Schalke was in the CL semi finals that season...
raskolnikov
Well-known member
Götze being hailed as one of their best players and future ballon d'or winner. Him betraying Dortmund a few hours before the cl semi's vs Real was the ultimate stab in the back.
They leaked the news to mess them up in that game. Even a day later there was already talk about Lewa letting his contract run out too join Bayern as well.
Imagine if Real did that to us taking away Neymar and Suarez, its a huge blow in many ways.
Neuer is also a classic Bayern move, just take away any potential player from a team that could rise up a sa challenge so they will never come close.
Anyway, Bundesliga is dead now, few years ago it was a fun competition but now its scotland 2.0, same with France.
Its gotten so bad that Pep's spell is considered a failure unless he wins a cl, winning the bundesliga is mandatory and nothing special.
They leaked the news to mess them up in that game. Even a day later there was already talk about Lewa letting his contract run out too join Bayern as well.
Imagine if Real did that to us taking away Neymar and Suarez, its a huge blow in many ways.
Neuer is also a classic Bayern move, just take away any potential player from a team that could rise up a sa challenge so they will never come close.
Anyway, Bundesliga is dead now, few years ago it was a fun competition but now its scotland 2.0, same with France.
Its gotten so bad that Pep's spell is considered a failure unless he wins a cl, winning the bundesliga is mandatory and nothing special.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Tuchel has done a really good job so far this season, but let's be honest, even when BVB was healthy and without injuries, they did not have the same kind of utmost domination of the game that Bayern has in the last three, four seasons. BVB is simply not good enough compared to Bayern and that is the reality.
However, I don't think it is Bayern's fault that BVB and other Buli teams can't compete with Bayern. Of course Bayern looked out for its own interest by getting the players they wanted from other Bundesliga teams, including Neuer (hey, he was billed to be the best German goalkeeper of the future at the time when he was at Schalke, why wouldn't Bayern get him?), Goetze (I disagree, he was the key and pivotal player at BVB, everybody expected a lot from him given his perceived potential. But he wanted to join Bayern reportedly because he grew up as a Bayern fan given that his family is originally from Memmingen, Bavaria and he reportedly wanted to play for Guardiola, of course Bayern would not say no), Lewandowski (like Goetze, he was adamant to go join Bayern).
The problem, as far as I see, is not Bayern getting these players from Buli teams since we all do the same (we "raided" Sevilla for quite a few good players), but that no other team can compete with Bayern when it comes to finances, prestige and results, that's why you have the likes of Lewandowski ditching BVB to play for Bayern. Imagine if BVB and other Buli teams built up their brand name and coffer, they would attract quality players too so they can compete head on with Bayern in that department. Right now, there is too much disparity between Bayern and the rest of Bundesliga teams in terms of pretty much everything, of course the best German players all want to go play for Bayern. Things won't change until we solve the root problem, which is this disparity.
Donauwelle
Member
Götze for sure was their biggest idol - and had the most hype around him - he looked so promising and people imagined him forever staying at the club etc.
But - he was not one of the 3-4 players that carried that team. He was missing too often with injuries to do have more influence (and it could be that the injuries kept him from having the unconsistency curves young players usually have)
@Luftstalag
There is a lot clubs in Germany that could be there if they would have acted wisely after good times. I mean the big clubs form the bigger cities who had success during the years, too - like e.g. Hamburg. It is not that Bayern could directly after their big years in the 70s had any advantages - they were deep in dept and Hoeneß had to sell Rummenigge to Inter...
Each of this clubs has to look into the mistakes they have made in the past as that is the reason why they do not have the same success. Not blame Bayern for it.
But it is not that the players would stay in Germany if there would not be Bayern - they would go abroad. And it is not like the Bayern from today would live of players from other Bundesliga clubs. Actually Neuer and right now Lewandowski are the only ones you can count into the starting formation or even top 13 or 14 that came from another Bundesliga club.
Dortmund has lost points against Bayern, Hamburg, Cologne, Darmstadt and Hoffenheim. No need to talk about that Bayern match - but the other matches are the ones that are the must wins for a club like Dortmund in which "Bayern has more money" just does not count especially if you have just moderate injury problems
It is the concentration on this little matches that makes the difference between a Bayern team 10 years ago and the Bayern team now since 2012. And it is the difference between Bayern and Dortmund. ( I would say that Dortmund is in a similar position to the other clubs like Bayern was before this period). No need to open the "money" argument now especially as Dortmund ain't a pauper. That is why I told that the difference between Dortmund and Bayern in the league is not money related. Money does not help you much when you play a quarter of the matches with 3 out of 8 your most offensive players - 2 forwards and a 19-year-old winger. (and only one or two of four fullbacks)
But - he was not one of the 3-4 players that carried that team. He was missing too often with injuries to do have more influence (and it could be that the injuries kept him from having the unconsistency curves young players usually have)
@Luftstalag
There is a lot clubs in Germany that could be there if they would have acted wisely after good times. I mean the big clubs form the bigger cities who had success during the years, too - like e.g. Hamburg. It is not that Bayern could directly after their big years in the 70s had any advantages - they were deep in dept and Hoeneß had to sell Rummenigge to Inter...
Each of this clubs has to look into the mistakes they have made in the past as that is the reason why they do not have the same success. Not blame Bayern for it.
But it is not that the players would stay in Germany if there would not be Bayern - they would go abroad. And it is not like the Bayern from today would live of players from other Bundesliga clubs. Actually Neuer and right now Lewandowski are the only ones you can count into the starting formation or even top 13 or 14 that came from another Bundesliga club.
Dortmund has lost points against Bayern, Hamburg, Cologne, Darmstadt and Hoffenheim. No need to talk about that Bayern match - but the other matches are the ones that are the must wins for a club like Dortmund in which "Bayern has more money" just does not count especially if you have just moderate injury problems
It is the concentration on this little matches that makes the difference between a Bayern team 10 years ago and the Bayern team now since 2012. And it is the difference between Bayern and Dortmund. ( I would say that Dortmund is in a similar position to the other clubs like Bayern was before this period). No need to open the "money" argument now especially as Dortmund ain't a pauper. That is why I told that the difference between Dortmund and Bayern in the league is not money related. Money does not help you much when you play a quarter of the matches with 3 out of 8 your most offensive players - 2 forwards and a 19-year-old winger. (and only one or two of four fullbacks)
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Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Sure, you can't blame the guy who worked hard to succeed for being successful. You get what you put in. It took Bayern a lot of good management and prudence to get to where it is today and I am not talking about the history. What happened happened. Let's look to the future.
And I agree with a lot of what you said but still, you can't deny that players at BVB and other Bundesliga clubs on not on the same level as Bayern (perhaps they are comparable when it comes to certain individual players but as a whole Bayern is leaps and bounds ahead). You mentioned that BVB lost points to those teams, that's right, that's what I meant by consistency, total domination and quality that Bayern enjoys over other clubs, again it all boils down to BVB not being good enough compared to Bayern.
You hit the nail on the head when you said if those players didn't go to Bayern, they would have gone abroad. THAT is the problem. Why? Because for a variety of reasons, Bundesliga clubs other than Bayern have not attained the level of prestige that Bayern, us, Real Madrid and some EPL clubs have attained which attracts players in flocks. In today's age how would you get that? By winning trophies. How would you win trophies? By having some of the best players and managers (and of course, upper management matters too). How do you get those players and managers? Money. You have to have a lot of money to buy players and pay competitive salaries. BVB and other Buli clubs are simply not in that position to do that. BVB's scouts actually have been very good in terms of excavating quality and cheaper players (Barrios, Kagawa, Gundogan and Aubameyang came to mind) and turning them into stars. But BVB can't retain a lot of these players, that is the problem. They either want to go play for Bayern or go abroad. The same can be said of other Bundesliga clubs.
So again, let's not assign blames to Bayern or anybody for what had happened, the key is what can be done to change the current situation. Sure, prudence from the clubs will go a long way. But without enough money, everything is just talk.
Donauwelle
Member
All of this clubs did not get there in a season or two - apart from the clubs that were helped by oil money. It took them decades. Decades of stable work. You have to go step by step. 10 years ago Bayern was not in the position either. We weren't attractive to foreign players and own good players left us. Some do not see the rise Bayern has made internationally in the last 10 years, too - basic for that was on the pitch and wise investment.
Maybe Dortmund could not hold onto their players 2 or 3 years ago - and probably still cannot when certain limits are met. But their financial situation and attractivity rose in the last years, too. And if they work wisely we might talk differently in five or 10 years.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Does anybody know whether there will be the 2nd BunDucksliga Tournament during the winter break?
The winner last year was Hertha Berlin, mighty Bayern was the runner up and BVB came up in third. For those of you who are not familiar with this passionate competition, check this out:
[youtube]I9QGBouu6VI[/youtube]
The winner last year was Hertha Berlin, mighty Bayern was the runner up and BVB came up in third. For those of you who are not familiar with this passionate competition, check this out:
[youtube]I9QGBouu6VI[/youtube]
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