Arjen Robben

beautifulgame said:

Even if true this is irrelevant. Had over three weeks to prepare after which is more than enough for even half fit players.

Other than Alexis, Neymar has shown fit, iniesta ran as much as alway, as well as masche and busquets. Messi being lazy is what Messi is now. Accept it. While robben will never be 1/5 of Messi he is a better professional and works harder. We have to accept this

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Better professional my arse.

gatsu said:

If you think that Robben is only a fast and strong player then you don't know anything about football, By technical qualities, i was referring to ball control and pace changing, regarding these elements Robben is the best player of the tournament (to be clear, i'm not stating a global opinion but just relatively to the WC).

Messi has been good but less constant than Robben, but yeah judging all of their carrier, Messi is a far better player no doubt about that.

About his tendency to dive, just give me more than 3 specific actions where he did that, i'm curious.

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Mate pls you've lost the plot if you think for a second that Robben has better ball control and pace changing than Messi, Robben dribbles with his pace while Messi uses his insane technical ability

Jesse1509 said:

Messi was invisible against an ultra-defensive Iran, apart from his goal. Robben was a constant threat against Costa Rica, a defensive team like Iran. In this world cup, and arguably throughout the last season as well, Messi relies on single moments of magic instead of being a constant threat. Robben hasn't drifted out of games like Messi in this WC. So I agree with Gilles: Robben is better than Messi at the moment. Not overall, just at the moment.

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Messi plays as a CM for Argentina you know and Robben is a free electron on the wing. Besides you have a better coach and the team clicks unlike Argies which makes it an unfair comparision.

I respect your opinion but your location says it all really.

beautifulgame said:

Other than Alexis, Neymar has shown fit, iniesta ran as much as alway, as well as masche and busquets. Messi being lazy is what Messi is now. Accept it. While robben will never be 1/5 of Messi he is a better professional and works harder. We have to accept this

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Gold.

His diving is almost as bad as Neymar's. Immense player though.

DonAndres said:

Honestly Idk why you guys are so defensive about Messi's walking. Don't you want a better Messi?? Or is this the most you think the GOAT can provide? No one is saying he's shit, quite the contrary. Just that he's capable of so much more. I really hope Messi gives 100% against the Dutch, and then that Lucho can fix his bad habits for Barcelona so that he isn't in a position to be doubted.

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+1

DonAndres said:

Honestly Idk why you guys are so defensive about Messi's walking. Don't you want a better Messi?? Or is this the most you think the GOAT can provide? No one is saying he's shit, quite the contrary. Just that he's capable of so much more. I really hope Messi gives 100% against the Dutch, and then that Lucho can fix his bad habits for Barcelona so that he isn't in a position to be doubted.

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+1

Lucho must make him work for the team again. First step into being back at the very top in every competition.

Clockwise said:

So you want a player's thread which is 2 pages long in like 4 years to reach 50 pages in a few days? say he is better than Messi.

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darthvader7888 said:

His diving is almost as bad as Neymar's. Immense player though.

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What you're talking about? Neymar is not on Robben's level of diving. Robben is a master. Many of his divings look like fouls, he fooled me inumerous times.

Sumlit said:

For me Messi's reduced movement has to do with the fact that he has not reached 100% fitness level since his return from injury. We have to realize that in 2013 Messi missed 100 days due to injury. That's close to a third of the year. And it wasn't just one injury, but 4 different episodes scattered throughout the year. One can easily say Messi has had a full year (2013) of low fitness level due to injury, followed by a tentative and reserved level of performance (in 2014) in preparation for this intense short tournament. Not hard to see how he cannot be at his 100% top fitness level.

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For a couple of games in March he looked 100 % to me but then in a matter of weeks his form dipped massively so it could be stamina/lack of fitness. From what I understand/read the last couple of months barça hardly trained seriously under Martino.

I think you've pretty much got it right Mitchell1978. Don't think it's an injury-related fitness issue as Messi has shown numerous times in 2014 with his performances.

Also re: the conditions, yes they could be a factor but iirc Argentina infact have the most famous favourable conditions of all teams with all their games in the south of the country. Robben, for example, played the Mexico game in Fortaleza in 38 C heat with cooling breaks and managed to run 11383 m in 90 min, 3000 m more than Messi on average!

In the entire World Cup, Messi is the player that has one of the least distance covered per minute stat. He is 47th, the only players who covered less distance per min are 42 goalies and 4 defenders (Thiago Silva, Didier Zokora, Victor Bernardez and Godfrey Oboboana). When it comes to distance covered not in possession, he's the least in the entire World Cup after the goalies. Really don't think conditions or his role in the team etc. are relevant excuses.

Anyway, that amazing fivethirtyeight article (Lionel Messi is impossible) shows Messi is by far the most efficient player on the planet, and here's another stat that can act as evidence.

So the world's best CB is lazy too.

I don't 'lazy' is a fair word to use when we talk about Messi's movement and distance covered. First of all he never covered huge distances and has always preferred to have the ball played to him even if a defender is nearby, which is one of the reasons I think he moves so little off the ball.

I do agree that he moved more before and his work rate has gone down but to call him lazy is disrespectful. His worked his ass off to get fit after his injuries and now he's leading his team in a World Cup semi final.. do people here honestly think he doesn't give a shit about his country and is just walking around like a lazy git?

A good coach who shows him that better movement could help his game will be able to get more out of him. He may also have stamina issues that need to be worked on.

To all the haters calling him a diver:



No dive, clear penalty

darthvader7888 said:

To all the haters calling him a diver:

No dive, clear penalty

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One time no Xavi around and the grass grows like crazy, ruining everything.