Ivan Rakitić

serghei

Senior Member
Rakitic isn't the worst player in the universe. He is just not good enough anymore to be considered an undisputed starter. He can still play a part in this team, if he stays, but needs to be utilized in matches were his weakness are not exposed.

Dembele isn't an awesome player. He is young and very talented with many flaws and an undeserved high pricetag.

Arthur last year competed with Vidal for a starting spot, not with raki and busi. He has shown good potential for a midfielder of his age. Also he has his own flaws and bad matches, and should also be utilized in matches where his attributes are required.

Totally true. Rakitic is not a bad player per se. He is just a bad player to have in a squad managed by Valverde. Rakitic is a valuable player if you understand his qualities and his flaws as a manager. Problems appear when you don't. For example, his flaws are the same as Liverpool's greatest strenghts. He can't pass and gets flustered under pressure, which is exactly what Liverpool give teams in abundance: pressure and the feeling that you are out of time and need to get rid of the ball.

He could be such a great squad player, he would be incredible.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
You are right about this.
And this video is correct.

But as I have wrote a few times: when Rakitic makes a dumb pass, that video will be posted here 50 times.

Please find me at least 3-4 gifs where Arthur is free and he passes the ball in a state of panic. Lol.

Arthur is always looking around him before receiving so he knows constantly when he needs to tap back and play a safe pass and when he can turn with the ball and find better options. He knows this, and doesn't panic, because a) he informs himself about available space around him pre-receiving, b) has the technique to do a very good first touch so the ball remains in his control very fast, and c) has the composure and the confidence due to having done this many times.

Please don't go full retard by saying now Arthur is not very good under pressure and is similar to Rakitic in this aspect.

Let me tell you what happened there with Rakitic so you understand what caused the horrible giveaway. Rakitic receives the ball and doesn't have a clue what is going on behind him. He wasn't even ready to receive because he was already tensed. This happens often, because he is not used to providing a way in build-up under pressure. He doesn't have the confidence to enter hot zones, take the ball from there and oxygenate the play so to speak. He is not a fixer, that turns a pressure situation into a cohesive attack. He is a transferrer, which means that when he deals with a pressure situation he often transfers the pressure to a teammate, and when you do that, the pressure usually gets higher, in direct contrast with the options on the ball, which get fewer and riskier as you're now playing closer to your goal and an error is even more problematic.

That's the hard part in playing through pressure. If you don't do the required things to defuse it quickly, it adds up and adds up until it leads to a spill or an error. Even though Rakitic is not usually the one directly making the error, he is often the main responsible for it, because he plays in a position where he has the tools to defuse the pressure, but rarely does. So why doesn't he do it? Too much panic, too low confidence, too many weighty touches due to average close ball technique. When Rakitic does receive and is sort of surrounded by opponents (rarely asks the ball in such cases), basically he panics because he thinks the opponents are breathing down his neck, when in reality plenty of times they are far enough for him to have time to advance the play. You put Arthur and Rakitic in the same pressure situation, and Arthur would probably find the same level or pressure that forces Rakitic into mistakes completely manageable and playable. When Rakitic received the ball in the above gif, he felt the pressure (which was lol worthy since there wasn't any) and he passed the ball as to get rid of it, trying to pass the hot sausage to a teammate, hopefully someone better than him who could maybe find a better solution to advance the play. Sadly his first touch is usually average in tight spaces, and he finds an opponent instead, and the hot sausage turns into a shot off the post for PSV.

When you try to pass your way out of pressure and you play Rakitic, it's like trying to do ballet with a WWE wrestler.

Rakitic as a CM almost always has a 360 degrees viewing field and passing angle, if he moves well and is smart. A wide variety of solutions, and contrary to BBZ's ideas, a back pass can be smart if it is the best viable solution to a pressure situation. A defender has at best 180 degrees if he plays centrally. A fullback has even less, probably the least options from all players. Usually it's only 90 degrees passing and viewing angle if he's playing near the corner. Those 90 degrees get considerably narrower in games vs aggresive teams like Liverpool. A great midfielder always has more weapons and more solutions to defuse a bad situation. So when people shit on Alba because Rakitic put him in a terrible position, it is just unfair.
 
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JohnN

Senior Member
Please find me at least 3-4 gifs where Arthur is free and he passes the ball in a state of panic. Lol.

Arthur is always looking around him before receiving so he knows constantly when he needs to tap back and play a safe pass and when he can turn with the ball and find better options. He knows this, and doesn't panic, because a) he informs himself about available space around him pre-receiving, b) has the technique to do a very good first touch so the ball remains in his control very fast, and c) has the composure and the confidence due to having done this many times.

Please don't go full retard by saying now Arthur is not very good under pressure and is similar to Rakitic in this aspect.

Let me tell you what happened there with Rakitic so you understand what caused the horrible giveaway. Rakitic receives the ball and doesn't have a clue what is going on behind him. He wasn't even ready to receive because he was already tensed. This happens often, because he is not used to providing a way in build-up under pressure. He doesn't have the confidence to enter hot zones, take the ball from there and oxygenate the play so to speak. He is not a fixer, that turns a pressure situation into a cohesive attack. He is a transferrer, which means that when he deals with a pressure situation he often transfers the pressure to a teammate, and when you do that, the pressure usually gets higher. That's the hard part in playing through pressure. If you don't do the required things to defuse it quickly, it adds up and adds up until it leads to a spill or an error. Even though Rakitic is not usually the one making the error, because he is near the top of the chain, the error in defense is partly caused by his inability to oxygenate the play when the ball is in less dangerous areas. Rakitic as a CM almost always has a 360 degrees viewing field and passing angle, if he moves well and is smart. A defender has at best 180 degrees. A fullback has even less. Usually it's only 90 degrees passing and viewing angle if he's playing near the corner. A great midfielder always has more weapons and more solutions to defuse a bad situation. So when people shit on Alba because Rakitic put him in a terrible position, it is just unfair.

So, when Rakitic does receive, he panics because he thinks the opponent is breathing down his neck. Then he passes the ball as to get rid of it, transferring the hot sausage to a teammate, hopefully someone better than him who could maybe find a better solution to advance the play. Sadly his first touch is usually average in tight spaces, and he finds an opponent instead, and the hot sausage turns into a shot off the post for PSV.

When you try to pass your way out of pressure and you play Rakitic, it's like trying to do ballet with a WWE wrestler.

All true.
You should keep in mind that the same logic applies to the messi discussion in the other thread.
Trying to collectively defend and park the bus using messi is just wrong, the same way that trying to overcome preassure using raki is.
If defending deep all game is your game plan, messi is just not suited for it.
All players have their strengths and weaknesses.
 

Xaviniesta

Senior Member
Rakitic receives the ball and doesn't have a clue what is going on behind him. He wasn't even ready to receive because he was already tensed. This happens often, because he is not used to providing a way in build-up under pressure. He doesn't have the confidence to enter hot zones, take the ball from there and oxygenate the play so to speak. He is not a fixer, that turns a pressure situation into a cohesive attack. He is a transferrer, which means that when he deals with a pressure situation he often transfers the pressure to a teammate, and when you do that, the pressure usually gets higher, in direct contrast with the options on the ball, which get fewer and riskier as you're now playing closer to your goal and an error is even more problematic.

Big emphasis on this paragraph right here. This guy is completely unaware of his surroundings that even Messi gets annoyed by it. There are many videos out there of Messi getting pissed off at him for making passes like the one below

[FONT=&quot]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-theme="dark"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">and there are so many examples.. <a href="https://t.co/jDCFcbix02">pic.twitter.com/jDCFcbix02</a></p>— Renaud_FCB (@Renaud_FCB2) <a href="https://twitter.com/Renaud_FCB2/status/1077989524175761411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 26, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/FONT]
 

serghei

Senior Member
Big emphasis on this paragraph right here. This guy is completely unaware of his surroundings that even Messi gets annoyed by it. There are many videos out there of Messi getting pissed off at him for making passes like the one below

[FONT="]<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-conversation="none" data-theme="dark"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">and there are so many examples.. <a href="https://t.co/jDCFcbix02">pic.twitter.com/jDCFcbix02</a></p>— Renaud_FCB (@Renaud_FCB2) <a href="https://twitter.com/Renaud_FCB2/status/1077989524175761411?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">December 26, 2018</a></blockquote> <script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>[/FONT]

There are situations like that (maybe not as extreme as you can see Messi voicing his frustration there, which he rarely does) almost every game he plays vs a reasonably good team.
 

te amo barca

Blaugrana al vent
said it back in autumn I think that Rakitic’s inability to play and turn with his back to goal would cost us, as he would be exposed against pressing teams. Wasn’t really a prediction as this happens almost every time we play against a hard pressing team. Sometimes he manages to evade pressure with a swift touch, but most of the times he is simply oblivious to what is happening in the nearest surroundings. Tries to shield the ball, gets a foul/loses the ball. Rinse and repeat.
 

underoath

Banned
You are right about this.
And this video is correct.

But as I have wrote a few times: when Rakitic makes a dumb pass, that video will be posted here 50 times.
When Arthur made lots of similar dumb passes, people didn't even comment on that.
I mean, why commenting on bad passes of a young player whom a forum actually love?
A few times after matches, when he was bad, nobody wanted to say the truth: he was bad.
When he made horrible passes which led to 1 vs 1 opportunities for opponents: a silence. Nobody is mentioning that.

The same as with Dembele's and Raki's nutmegs to Griezz.
One is a spectacular thing and a proof how Dembele is a world class, motivated and brave.
The other nutmeg: not a single user has mentioned.

Anyway, June and July are probably the worst Months to read forums.
Nothing is happening, there are no matches, and people are just pushing personal agendas.
I am not different either, btw.

But I can't wait for the firsr matches and for actual good moves and mistakes.
Since in this moment, the whole last season is forgotten.

Dembele is awesome player again.
Raki is the worst in the universe.
Arthur jumped from the 5th pick in midfield to an an indisputable starter.

Our forum, current debates and emotional biases are not too far off from a silly season and from silly transfer zero sense stories.

Imo, current estimations and debates are of thr lowest quality in a long time.
Due to not having actual matches and people talking mostly based on their emotions.

What do you expect from the Arthur, Semedo and Dembele fanboys here.
 

underoath

Banned
Please find me at least 3-4 gifs where Arthur is free and he passes the ball in a state of panic. Lol.

Arthur is always looking around him before receiving so he knows constantly when he needs to tap back and play a safe pass and when he can turn with the ball and find better options. He knows this, and doesn't panic, because a) he informs himself about available space around him pre-receiving, b) has the technique to do a very good first touch so the ball remains in his control very fast, and c) has the composure and the confidence due to having done this many times.

Please don't go full retard by saying now Arthur is not very good under pressure and is similar to Rakitic in this aspect.

Let me tell you what happened there with Rakitic so you understand what caused the horrible giveaway. Rakitic receives the ball and doesn't have a clue what is going on behind him. He wasn't even ready to receive because he was already tensed. This happens often, because he is not used to providing a way in build-up under pressure. He doesn't have the confidence to enter hot zones, take the ball from there and oxygenate the play so to speak. He is not a fixer, that turns a pressure situation into a cohesive attack. He is a transferrer, which means that when he deals with a pressure situation he often transfers the pressure to a teammate, and when you do that, the pressure usually gets higher, in direct contrast with the options on the ball, which get fewer and riskier as you're now playing closer to your goal and an error is even more problematic.

That's the hard part in playing through pressure. If you don't do the required things to defuse it quickly, it adds up and adds up until it leads to a spill or an error. Even though Rakitic is not usually the one directly making the error, he is often the main responsible for it, because he plays in a position where he has the tools to defuse the pressure, but rarely does. So why doesn't he do it? Too much panic, too low confidence, too many weighty touches due to average close ball technique. When Rakitic does receive and is sort of surrounded by opponents (rarely asks the ball in such cases), basically he panics because he thinks the opponents are breathing down his neck, when in reality plenty of times they are far enough for him to have time to advance the play. You put Arthur and Rakitic in the same pressure situation, and Arthur would probably find the same level or pressure that forces Rakitic into mistakes completely manageable and playable. When Rakitic received the ball in the above gif, he felt the pressure (which was lol worthy since there wasn't any) and he passed the ball as to get rid of it, trying to pass the hot sausage to a teammate, hopefully someone better than him who could maybe find a better solution to advance the play. Sadly his first touch is usually average in tight spaces, and he finds an opponent instead, and the hot sausage turns into a shot off the post for PSV.

When you try to pass your way out of pressure and you play Rakitic, it's like trying to do ballet with a WWE wrestler.

Rakitic as a CM almost always has a 360 degrees viewing field and passing angle, if he moves well and is smart. A wide variety of solutions, and contrary to BBZ's ideas, a back pass can be smart if it is the best viable solution to a pressure situation. A defender has at best 180 degrees if he plays centrally. A fullback has even less, probably the least options from all players. Usually it's only 90 degrees passing and viewing angle if he's playing near the corner. Those 90 degrees get considerably narrower in games vs aggresive teams like Liverpool. A great midfielder always has more weapons and more solutions to defuse a bad situation. So when people shit on Alba because Rakitic put him in a terrible position, it is just unfair.

WTF is this guy even saying :lol: trying so hard to annalyze a missed pass. It's simple, he knew someone is open at other side he tried to pass it but eventually it's a bad pass.
Gotta love the people here that act like a Professional Managers and Players, but just a keyboard warriors
 

Potroh

New member
But as I have wrote a few times: when Rakitic makes a dumb pass, that video will be posted here 50 times.
When Arthur made lots of similar dumb passes, people didn't even comment on that.

Just to be fair, BBZ is right this time imho.
A single and awkward pass wouldn't make a player's entire season or even carrier to muck upon. It happens.
All of us have seen rather awkward moves from even the best players on the globe.

Of course BBZ brings out the magic rabbit from his hat and instantly tries to compare his favorite player with Arthur, which is where the lack of objectivity starts, but neither Rakitic nor anyone else should be judged by a single bad move.

Obviously, Rakitic is a very good player, helped Barca a lot but his time has passed in the Camp Nou.
He should leave or should be sold to an easier league, so he could still have a few good years elsewhere, before he retires.

EDIT: Barca and this horrible board should have sold him last year for 90M, no other sane club would have missed that rare opportunity...
 
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Xaviniesta

Senior Member
Just to be fair, BBZ is right this time imho.
A single and awkward pass wouldn't make a player's entire season or even carrier to muck upon. It happens.
All of us have seen rather awkward moves from even the best players on the globe.

People are just using these passes as obvious examples of what he regularly does as the supposed "most advanced" Barca starting midfielder.
 

Potroh

New member
People are just using these passes as obvious examples of what he regularly does as the supposed "most advanced" Barca starting midfielder.

Right, but as he is indeed not really the 'most advanced' starting midfielder, he is also not the one making too many outstanding and dangerous defensive mistakes either. He is just average, grey, mediocre, slow, mention-less and dimensionless, but good old BBZ is right about pointing to his offensive and scoring capabilities, which is far from being world-class, but it was useful over his Barca years, even if there were many much better examples out there.

Let the folks rightly criticize him here, specially that he is the beloved favorite of the eagle-eyed coach, but he is not 'shit' as such. Just someone who shouldn't be a starter anymore.
 

Arizona Scott

New member
Ahh...

Here, ladies and gentlemen, we have BBZ in his purest form.


He fiercely defends Rakitic, and trashes on Arthur and Dembele.

Heck, even Messi's been getting it from him lately....


-
Rakitic's shit and past it mate, deal with it.

Some people just don't read fully, comprehend well, or both.

BBZ never said it was not a bad pass or not a bad decision, he did point out whose bad plays are disproportionally of foci.

He didn't even get to the lost possessions, Busi skates by with from many of these same posters who want to highlight rakitic mistakes yet he had equal but paying a deeper position where they are even more costly.

Another aside, anyone complaining about Rakitic peripheral vision and middle of the pitch decision making should want zero part of Roberto EVER being placed there.

Its the hypocrisy about the whole matter and lack of any consistency in principles (e.g., emotion and bias dominant spin--we all have bias but we should do our best to check it, e.g., a least a little humility in our observations and attributions). At least BBZ acknowledge bias and openness to miss things, and that is more than most here. Criticism and sad/humorous videos are fine, but if you are going to spend a lot of energy on that try to use a little discipline towards similar blunders by all of the high minute squad players.

Unfortunately we havn't had a Xavi, since well, Xavi, some posters seem to be happy to wait another century or two for that kind of La Masia backbone and "Barca way" to re-appear. Some of us prefer to be a little pragmatic and realistic with what players are actually playing football in the world right now, both for Barca and other teams where we may be able to pry some talent away. Sadly we could not recreate what we had then with the best 3 midfielders in world football right now, whatever the cost it would be to acquire them.
 
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JohnN

Senior Member
Right, but as he is indeed not really the 'most advanced' starting midfielder, he is also not the one making too many outstanding and dangerous defensive mistakes either. He is just average, grey, mediocre, slow, mention-less and dimensionless, but good old BBZ is right about pointing to his offensive and scoring capabilities, which is far from being world-class, but it was useful over his Barca years, even if there were many much better examples out there.

Let the folks rightly criticize him here, specially that he is the beloved favorite of the eagle-eyed coach, but he is not 'shit' as such. Just someone who shouldn't be a starter anymore.

That's what I am saying too.
No need for over the top criticism.
No need to defend him at all Costs.

As our great coach said: it is what it is.
Which weirdly applies well in the rakitic case.
 

serghei

Senior Member
Some people just don't read fully, comprehend well, or both.

BBZ never said it was not a bad pass or not a bad decision, he did point out whose bad plays are disproportionally of foci.

He didn't even get to the lost possessions, Busi skates by with from many of these same posters who want to highlight rakitic mistakes yet he had equal but paying a deeper position where they are even more costly.

Another aside, anyone complaining about Rakitic peripheral vision and middle of the pitch decision making should want zero part of Roberto EVER being placed there.

Its the hypocrisy about the whole matter and lack of any consistency in principles (e.g., emotion and bias dominant spin--we all have bias but we should do our best to check it, e.g., a least a little humility in our observations and attributions). At least BBZ acknowledge bias and openness to miss things, and that is more than most here. Criticism and sad/humorous videos are fine, but if you are going to spend a lot of energy on that try to use a little discipline towards similar blunders by all of the high minute squad players.

Unfortunately we havn't had a Xavi, since well, Xavi, some posters seem to be happy to wait another century or two for that kind of La Masia backbone and "Barca way" to re-appear. Some of us prefer to be a little pragmatic and realistic with what players are actually playing football in the world right now, both for Barca and other teams where we may be able to pry some talent away. Sadly we could not recreate what we had then with the best 3 midfielders in world football right now, whatever the cost it would be to acquire them.

You are right, Busi in this current form is not far from Rakitic. Still a better passer, so if we are to choose one of them to play, it would still be Busquets probably.

I'd personally start with De Jong - Vidal - Arthur for the first few games. Send a signal from the start. Both Busi and Rakitic on the bench. Rakitic at this moment should be, no offense, 5th option in midfield after De Jong, Arthur, Vidal, Busquets.
 

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