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Thread: 4 - Ivan Rakitić

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorin View Post
    So now Rakitic is/was great and Valverde is a genius because he played him all the time? The same Valverde that saw our midfield getting abused by any team out there, even by the likes of Eibar and Alaves and still insisted on playing the same damn players over and over again. Also part of our greatest ever humiliations. Not our worst ever signing by any stretch of imaginations but the guy has overstayed his welcome for over 2 years and I'm being generous here. He could still be a good mid for some other team but for Barcelona's standards he's been mediocre for a few years now.
    You are deliberately putting things out of the contents, twisting sentences and making false statements that we never said. EV was never genious, he overplayed Raki and yes he was a undisputable starter for to long. But, the thing is lots of folk here are shitting beyond every level. Yes, Rakitić was part of the Roma and Lpool defeats. Just like entire defence, entire midfield and half of an attack. For me, he is equaly to blame just like all of them except Messi and MAtS. They all fucked up big time. So now channeling all the hatred to one player is just not fair... and shows how the fans act.
    Andres DON Iniesta is the only player in football's history to be Man of the Match in a Champions League final, EURO final and World Cup final.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JerseyAddict View Post
    You are deliberately putting things out of the contents, twisting sentences and making false statements that we never said. EV was never genious, he overplayed Raki and yes he was a undisputable starter for to long. But, the thing is lots of folk here are shitting beyond every level. Yes, Rakitić was part of the Roma and Lpool defeats. Just like entire defence, entire midfield and half of an attack. For me, he is equaly to blame just like all of them except Messi and MAtS. They all fucked up big time. So now channeling all the hatred to one player is just not fair... and shows how the fans act.
    When people(not you specifically) argue that Valverde used him so much to show what a valuable player Rakitic is/was you just lost the argument. Nobody said that Valverde was a genius, that is true, I was exaggerating just to make a point. When it suits their argument Valverde using Rakitic 24/7 is a good thing, next thing when he inevitably shits the bed then Valverde is a moron. Can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

    All the club is at fault for our humiliations but there are levels to this too. I would put them in this order: Bartomeu, Valverde, midfield, defence/attack. And within these big categories there are the individuals who are more or less at fault. For midfield there is Busquets/Rakitic as the main guys at fault, for attack Suarez and the lack of any consistent winger, for defence almost all of them but would still single out Bob/Alba while the CB lack leadership and strong mentality. Agreed on Ter Stegen and Messi. My point though is that everyone gets blame, some more than others. I won't ever agree with the slating of Rakitic as "disgusting pos" and whatever other strong insult he gets but Bartomeu is called a rat, Valverde is called a retard left, right and center, Suarez fat, useless and other "nice" adjectives. Stop making it out to be that Rakitic is the only insulted one and the only scapegoat. Also, the interviews over the years didn't do him any favours. From coming out as homophobic and racist a few years back, to an entitled diva just this summer he hasn't helped him endear to the fans too much.

    Anyway, let's just agree that he doesn't have any place in this team whatsoever at this point and leave it at that. And before someone accuses me of having a bias, other should take a back seat or leave too. Like Suarez, Busquets, Bob, Dembele, maybe Alba and probably more. Doesn't change the fact that Rakitic is finished for us and should leave for both our benefit and his.

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    For people blaming EV for overplaying Raki over the last two seasons let me present you the alternatives we've had:

    2017/18:

    Busi - he was the other fixed starter (yeah, also undeservedly but we also didn't have any alternative to him) in midfield so never competed with Raki for playing time
    Samper - not good enough, was on loan at Las Palmas, got injured and came back to recuperate and then went to Japan; if he would be as good as some people expected he would probably stay in a solid La Liga team or at least in a top 5 league
    Oriol Busquets - he's not good enough for our first team now, he was nowhere good enough 2 years ago; even then, he's more a DM than a CM
    Roberto - could be an option but he was our starting RB for most of the season; people would probably complain if he would play in midfield like they are now lol
    Gomes - wasn't considered good enough and people hated him even more than they hate Raki now
    Paulinho - hated at first, then had some good games but he was much better playing closer to the goal than doing "dirty work" in midfield as we've struggled whenever he has played in Raki/Busi role
    Iniesta - already 33 in his last season here, couldn't play 90 minutes anymore and people complained he was overplayed as well
    Alena - spent most of the season in Barça B, could maybe get a game here or there but he was not ready to start and is a more offensive player than Raki at this point of his career
    Arda - could potentially play in midfield but everyone wanted to get rid off him which we eventually did in January
    Denis - considered a flavor of the month/season by some people but he was never good enough to become a starter and not even a squad player
    Rafinha - injured then loaned to Inter as we were trying to get rid off him
    Coutinho - came in January and mostly shared his time with ageing Iniesta whom he was supposed to replace; but again, he is/was no Raki replacement

    So while we had a lot of "midfielders" they were either too young/inexperienced, too old, shit, injured, hated, whatever... Yeah, Raki was overplayed but there were no clear alternatives who should absolutely play more to limit his minutes. We can't blame only EV for this.

    2018/19:
    - Busi - the same as above
    - Oriol B. - the same as above
    - Roberto - the same as above
    - Gomes - loaned to Everton
    - Arthur - started well and established himself as a starter but then got injured and was never the same in second half of the season (it was obviously all Valverde's fault )
    - Vidal - opposite than Arthur, struggled at the start of the season with adaptaion to our system, then had some good apperances off the bench and got EV's confidence so he finished the season as a starter
    - Alena - missed a chance to prove himself to EV in preseason because of injury then played some games for Barça B before getting promoted; he got some regular minutes after New Year but never really impressed
    - Coutinho - he has played as a winger because we didn't have another starting calibre LW on the roster (we still don't lol unless we count Griezmann as a LW) with Dembele's injury problems; even in case EV would use him in midfield more he wouldn't play in Raki's role
    - Rafinha - injured
    - Denis - lol, then went on loan to Arsenal

    So again, was Raki overplayed? Yes, but our alternatives were not all that good for different reasons.

    Raki is/was a true workhorse who never got injured. He has never missed more than 4 games in a season during his time here and only missed more than 5 games when he was a 19-20 year-old kid at Schalke. So he was basically always available to play, knew the system and his role while other players struggled with injuries/adaptaion. No wonder he was playing so much though it would probably be better for both him personally and the team if he would rest more.


    This season is the first one when we have not one but two younger players who are good enough to be starters, fit to play and adapted to our system. So not only Raki has lost his starting spot but Busi's minutes will hopefully diminish too (though he'll still play a lot) - he's a legend and all but he lost his legs years ago and not even playing alongside younger midfielders can hide this fact anymore as some people expected. We also have a veteran in Vidal who is now fully adapted and Roberto has moved to the midfield and while not ideal he still has younger/fresher legs than Raki. So this is the first season when we have not one or two but 4 or 5 midfielders equally good or better than Raki. And his playing time so far has dropped according to his new status.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorin View Post
    When people(not you specifically) argue that Valverde used him so much to show what a valuable player Rakitic is/was you just lost the argument. Nobody said that Valverde was a genius, that is true, I was exaggerating just to make a point. When it suits their argument Valverde using Rakitic 24/7 is a good thing, next thing when he inevitably shits the bed then Valverde is a moron. Can't have it both ways I'm afraid.

    All the club is at fault for our humiliations but there are levels to this too. I would put them in this order: Bartomeu, Valverde, midfield, defence/attack. And within these big categories there are the individuals who are more or less at fault. For midfield there is Busquets/Rakitic as the main guys at fault, for attack Suarez and the lack of any consistent winger, for defence almost all of them but would still single out Bob/Alba while the CB lack leadership and strong mentality. Agreed on Ter Stegen and Messi. My point though is that everyone gets blame, some more than others. I won't ever agree with the slating of Rakitic as "disgusting pos" and whatever other strong insult he gets but Bartomeu is called a rat, Valverde is called a retard left, right and center, Suarez fat, useless and other "nice" adjectives. Stop making it out to be that Rakitic is the only insulted one and the only scapegoat. Also, the interviews over the years didn't do him any favours. From coming out as homophobic and racist a few years back, to an entitled diva just this summer he hasn't helped him endear to the fans too much.

    Anyway, let's just agree that he doesn't have any place in this team whatsoever at this point and leave it at that. And before someone accuses me of having a bias, other should take a back seat or leave too. Like Suarez, Busquets, Bob, Dembele, maybe Alba and probably more. Doesn't change the fact that Rakitic is finished for us and should leave for both our benefit and his.
    Now we can agree that we agree. LOL
    So yes, the argument he was used so much last year because he was the best solution... well, that is not an good argument. Because we didn't played well and we were bad and all EV did was riding on the wave of luck waiting to crash on the first iceberg... as he did. He should and had to use more of Arthur and more of diverse tactics.

    So to the next thing is... yes, they are all called names. Some even called Messi to leave etc. Insulting our/and worlds no1 player. That is the level of some fans.

    There is to much bench level players in our first 11 and I can agree with you for most of pointed out. The problem is that even EV here is not sole to blame, but even sporting directors and board. They trusted for to long to over satisfied players. Rakitić is one of them to. But he is realy gettin the stick even when he says to normal thing like "I believe in my spot". That is perfect and normal thing to say from a professional.

    He should leave if he want's to be undisputable starter for sure, if he is satisfied with sharing minutes, the I would keep him.
    Bigger problem is that this board TRASHED HUNDREDS of millions of euros and has no player to sale for some decent money so they are even pushing players out with newspaper leaflets and stuff.
    And if so many clubs want him, well... it is not a bad thing to move on after 5 years. as he himself said.
    Andres DON Iniesta is the only player in football's history to be Man of the Match in a Champions League final, EURO final and World Cup final.

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    Valverde is a spineless manager, that is his fault. Any manager worth his salt would have demanded another CM as soon as he saw the level of Rakitic in his first year. Imagine Klopp, Pep etc. watching his performances and be ok with it because there were no other alternatives. Hell would freeze over before they would accept everything the board or the veterans players would say. All these things before even considering the fact that with a cohesive and good system behind him, even Rakitic would have been used better and contribute more to the team. Valverde still remains the second most at fault, after the board, for the shit on a stick football we are serving up and utterly embarrassing CL humiliations.
    Last edited by Sorin; 10th October 2019 at 12:51 PM.

  6. #11541
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    Seems like some people need their mind refreshed.

    Ivan "Mourinho praised him" Lamapardtic in all his glory.

    Quote Originally Posted by A Valverde cheerleader in his natural habitat View Post
    Good, let them win the overrated CL and we'll continue to dominate La Liga.
    Quote Originally Posted by FCB1987 View Post
    CNN is probably the most reliable source of news

    #factsfirst
    Valverde: "I don't think about resigning and I don't feel like players have failed me."

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    How do people have it in them to be so fecking negative and toxic all the time?

    You lads really are something. I have observed jaded and bitter fans before and in many cases justifiably so, but I have never seen a fan base in these dire straights before. Being pessimistic is one thing, but it seems like quite a few blokes here get off on being deliberately as negative as possible and wallowing in misery with other users.

    It is the international break and I check-in to find multiple new pages of vitriol against a player that barely plays anymore and is probably out the door in January. Valverde is not a valid excuse to constantly be a piece of miserable shite all the time. Sorry, but this behaviour is not healthy and is borderline obsessive and deranged. If the club, the manager, the board and certain players seriously invoke such anger in some of your lot's hearts then maybe it's time to take a break.

    Before flinging more toxicity at me for being an "apologist" please take some time to reflect and gain some perspective on what you have become.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackle View Post
    How do people have it in them to be so fecking negative and toxic all the time?
    Before flinging more toxicity at me for being an "apologist" please take some time to reflect and gain some perspective on what you have become.
    Would you kindly go to Dembele's thread and read ALL of your own fecking negative, even toxic messages?
    Can you give an explanation for all those, apart from saying that Dembele is an exceptional case and hence your toxicity had been well deserved?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Potroh View Post
    Would you kindly go to Dembele's thread and read ALL of your own fecking negative, even toxic messages?
    Can you give an explanation for all those, apart from saying that Dembele is an exceptional case and hence your toxicity had been well deserved?
    It's quite simple and it has to do with the man we have on the bench. When the case is about the players that are benched/mismanaged by Valverde like Alena, Malcom, Semedo etc., he and the other guys that support this manager don't have any problem dishing out insults and toxic comments. As soon as the other side critiques and insults Valverde's most trusted players, they all come out and cry wolf. I mean, these guys have slandered fecking Guardiola just to defend Valverde and his proteges.
    Last edited by Sorin; 10th October 2019 at 03:38 PM.

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    Pretty much.

    Bunch of hypocritical shit to be screaming "why do you guys need negative and toxic all the time" when said poster has been doing the same shit in certain other player threads because it "Warrants it" So what's the difference here then?

    What tackle is doing in the Dembele threads or any other thread that isn't the Valverde thread or players that Valverde clearly liked, is the same crap he's whining about in this thread about Toxicity. it's like trying to convince people your shit don't stink.

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    Lol, there is absolutely no excuse not to play Arthur vs Liverpool. None. Accept it as a colossal management error from Valverde, one which probably costed him glory as a manager, and that's it.

    Valverde had some excuse for playing Rakitic in his first season, because we didn't have Arthur, but Gomes, who was clearly not good enough. As soon as Arthur came in the summer of 2018 and he played great from the get go, he should've played whenever fit. Because he is simply a better mover, a better passer and a more composed player, probably the three most important attributes for playing CM at Barcelona: movement, passing, composure. Rakitic is slow and old (not just slow as in physically slow, but he thinks slow), his passing is not good enough (due to a variety of factors) and his composure is non existent (he breaks whenever even lightly pressed, and desperately looks for ways to get rid of the ball and put some teammate under pressure).

    It's Arthur instead of Rakitic any fucking time, due to Rakitic registering the worst, ability wise, in Liverpool's strongest areas. That's fucking basics, you don't put in a CM whos huge flaws are a direct match with how Liverpool usually play.

    So, the situation is like this.

    Lucho tried to bench Rakitic, but due to some poor signings in midfield (especially Arda and Gomes) he was unable to, and just had to play Rakitic.
    This situation continued in Valverde's first season. No Vidal, no Arthur, with Gomes and Paulinho (who was mediocre at CM whenever he had to play there and don't do his second striker showings). So, again, there are some mitigating factors for playing Rakitic. Last season however the over-reliance on Busi - Rakitic combo cost us the treble probably. And Valverde did have options. So it was a planning and management problem mostly.

    It's good at least that, even if a year too late, Ernie found out that Arthur is simply a better midfielder than Rakitic.
    Last edited by serghei; 10th October 2019 at 04:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by messi2140 View Post
    Seems like some people need their mind refreshed.

    Ivan "Mourinho praised him" Lamapardtic in all his glory.

    Please out of care for the health of some of the posters, don't show this image again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    Lol, there is absolutely no excuse not to play Arthur vs Liverpool. None. Accept it as a colossal management error from Valverde, one which probably costed him glory as a manager, and that's it.

    Valverde had some excuse for playing Rakitic in his first season, because we didn't have Arthur, but Gomes, who was clearly not good enough. As soon as Arthur came in the summer of 2018 and he played great from the get go, he should've played whenever fit. Because he is simply a better mover, a better passer and a more composed player, probably the three most important attributes for playing CM at Barcelona: movement, passing, composure. Rakitic is slow and old (not just slow as in physically slow, but he thinks slow), his passing is not good enough (due to a variety of factors) and his composure is non existent (he breaks whenever even lightly pressed, and desperately looks for ways to get rid of the ball and put some teammate under pressure).

    It's Arthur instead of Rakitic any fucking time, due to Rakitic registering the worst, ability wise, in Liverpool's strongest areas. That's fucking basics, you don't put in a CM whos huge flaws are a direct match with how Liverpool usually play.

    So, the situation is like this.

    Lucho tried to bench Rakitic, but due to some poor signings in midfield (especially Arda and Gomes) he was unable to, and just had to play Rakitic.
    This situation continued in Valverde's first season. No Vidal, no Arthur, with Gomes and Paulinho (who was mediocre at CM whenever he had to play there and don't do his second striker showings). So, again, there are some mitigating factors for playing Rakitic. Last season however the over-reliance on Busi - Rakitic combo cost us the treble probably. And Valverde did have options. So it was a planning and management problem mostly.

    It's good at least that, even if a year too late, Ernie found out that Arthur is simply a better midfielder than Rakitic.
    He even had the example from the first leg, when despite the 3-0 result, our midfield was constantly pressed and lost the ball over and over again. Even Stevie Wonder saw that we had really big problems with their pressing and needed something else, especially going away at Anfield where the pressure was going to be even bigger. A guy earning 8 figures a year couldn't see it. Same with Bob being destroyed by Mane and Robertson and not utilizing the superior defender in Semedo in the return leg. Forget everything else and that alone is enough reason for sacking him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by messi2140 View Post
    Seems like some people need their mind refreshed.

    Ivan "Mourinho praised him" Lamapardtic in all his glory.



    PAIN
    ,,Concha de tu madre, hijo de mil putas"


    - I will NOT watch another Barcelona game untill Valverde leaves -

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