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Thread: 4 - Ivan Rakitić

  1. #11566
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackle View Post
    Top stuff.

    You can use whatever logic you want, but be consistent.

    If the short term sacrifice of throwing this season away to simply sack Valverde and replace him an unknown entity sounds like a good proposition to you then just don't go on crusades against other posters because they don't support a player you are a fan of.

    BBZ has been accused of actively rooting for one of our players to fail. I cannot comment on those accusations as they are probably before my time on this forum, but even if they are true this forum should have no problem with it if you lot want to maintain even a shred of logical consistency.

    What if BBZ believes Semedo for example is a fraud and his misleading performances are only furthering his stay at the club, therefore he should fail miserably as soon as possible so we can replace him with a "good" RB? Similar to Valverde, Semedo has had plenty of disaster performances and has many flaws in his game. A new RB would be a complete unknown as would Valverde's potential replacement, but he is operating under the assumption the new RB will be "good," just as you believe in the premise of the new manager surely being better than Valverde.

    You cannot seriously wish for the manager of your own club to fail for the "greater good" only to go around shaming other users under the assumption they want X player to fail simply because you are personally a fan of said player. You have no right, nor are you in any position to claim moral superiority because you believe your subjective intent behind wanting the club to suffer is supposedly better than another poster's.

    What a crock of shite and the epitome of hypocrisy. "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones."
    BBZ doesn't understand the tactical and managerial aspect of football. When you don't understand something, and not only that, but you refuse to learn about it as to become informed, and instead rely on some half baked agenda-driven stats, then of course you get called up for it.

    So, it's simple. BBZ doesn't know tactics at all most likely, and yet he posts about things which are heavy influenced by these aspects.

    BBZ is getting heat for nothing else than ageda driven nonsense backed with flimsy pseudo-arguments.
    Last edited by serghei; 11th October 2019 at 10:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post

    I am posting less often lately and I will probably post less, because when you sum it all, it is not worth it.





    Here's my theory, I've alluded to this once before but now I'll ask again: BBZ, earnestly, are you posting 'less and less' because along the years you morphed into more of a Rakitic fan than a Barca one?


    And now Rakitic is barely playing, you're becoming - either consciously or subconsciously - more and more indifferent?


    You've said numerous times you don't particularly enjoy when we play beautiful football anyway, so it's not like you'll be missing much if you don't watch every game since now you no longer have your main reason to watch the game.


    Especially now when you add the fact Arthur, who's been our best player this season, is doing so well. And we all know you disliked him even before last year's pre-season...


    It's just an assumption though, but is there any truth to that? I'm genuinely asking.

  3. #11568
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    ** Warning: this post contains 23 800 characters, so I had to split it in two posts

    Part 1:
    I have said a few times that there are tons of things to learn even from on online community which can help you in all other aspects of life.
    I had suspicions in the past that a person more or less can't fight against the majority/mob in any area of life.
    Or that it is very rare with a successful outcome.
    And it is confirming here.

    I am posting less often lately and I will probably post less, because when you sum it all, it is not worth it.
    Here is why:
    For a rookie reader, it may seem that all fights (not me, but from any users) are more or less about football.
    But when you dig a little deeper, one can understand that football is probably only 50% of fighting here.

    User @Potroh and some others asked lately why is there so much negativity in any topic in recent Months.
    Imo, there are 5 main reasons:
    1. a human nature. We are as individuals wired and created to SURVIVE and to win.
    Life and everything in it is a battle. Our genes are forcing us to be "winners" in everything what we do in life.
    That means: try to survive, try to not get hit by a car today (or eaten by a bear in the past), try to make more money than people around you, try to get the best girlfriend possible etc.
    Similar rules could apply here: try to know as much as possible about football. Try to be the best in judgements of players, coaches, tactics, club's future, everything regarding football.

    And on a football level, then you get a pissing contest: Roberto is good. Roberto is not. You are an idiot, Roberto is good. No, you are an idiot, Roberto is not good.
    The same happens in every single topic.
    So, individuals, survival instincts and egos are a reason no1 for fighting. We can't escape those.

    2. no 2 is, as I have wrote yesterday: our animal urges to get into tribes.
    Since again: a life is a survival battle. Everyone fights for himself, but it is easier to survive battles and escape from enemies if you surround yourself with more people (especially if you share some bond, like being a family or having a similar beliefs/ideas).
    In the early days of humans, if you were attacked by a bear or by another tribe, was it easier to fight with a bear on your own or helped by 20 guys from your tribe?
    Or, if another tribe has attacked you, was it easier to fight against them in 1 vs 20 or with a help from your friends in 20 vs 20?
    That urge (to get into tribes) is also coded in our DNA as a part of those survival instincts (and how to escape death and problems more easily).
    On a Barca forum, this part of a human nature is showing all the time.
    A general idea of a majority of Barca's fans are:
    1) we play beautiful football and we should always play that way
    2) Pep is a God on Earth, no one has ever played better and we should aim to copy everything what he did till the end of a universe (a type of light players, a type of a system, tactics, passes, everything).
    3) then there is a strong urge in people to have something to look for the in the future, which in this case means: people want to see young players so that they will have something to look for. If there is no young players and young hopes, people are sad and their dreams for a better future are crushed.
    From this area we have an obsession about any semi decent La Masia kid or a huge bias towards all young players whom we signed and a lot of hate towards players who are past their 30s.
    Why? Because people see young players as an opportunity to have a bright future.
    While older players are almost done, and even if they are still good, people don't see them in longterm (dreamy) plans and so they want to get rid of them quite soon. To make space for YOUNG La Masia players and YOUNG players bought.
    Of course, an objective quality of a young player is not too important here, because people will offer their dreamy alibies: he is young and has potential.
    If a player has flaws: he will fix them, he is young.
    Now insert young players like Puig, Alena, Oriol, Fati, Wague, Todibo and the bias is quite obvious, regardless of their actual footballing quality.
    Majority of fans share the same views: young guys are good. Older guys are bad.
    Now insert older players: Rakitic, Busi, Suarez, Pique. Regardless of their actual current abilities, and you will get a simple answer again.

    3. so, we had: survival instincts, egos and tribes/majority as reasons 1 and 2 (for fighting) on my list.
    Imo, other reasons: majority of people are angry or not satisfied by some parts of their real lives.
    And internet, and unknown people are a perfect place to vent their anger and frustrations.

    4. No4: a lot of guys are very emotionally attached to Barca from various reasons.
    Now, if someone is very, very attached to Barca and if Barca is a huge factor in his happiness in life, then a No2 kicks in again, a part with: we need young talents who will give us hope for the future.
    The more someone is attached to Barca and the more Barca's success impacts his life and happiness, imo, the higher are the chances that a person will be desperate for "a future hope" and for "objective" reasons/proofs that a future will be bright.
    That again mostly means=borderline obsession and a total lack of objectivity towards any young players.
    Young players are a sacred cows in that case and ANY bad post or questioning of their abilities are the biggest sin, since that way you are crushing people's dreams.
    For example, today, 3 pillars of dreams of majority of Barca's fans are: 1. Frenkie 2. Arthur 3. Fati
    The more people are attached to a player, the harder it is to even mention a flaw of a player.
    For example, I dare someone to post something bad in Frenkie's topic, even objective things: for example, that he is also quite meh in the attacking third.
    Regarding Fati, my first thought when I checked his age and stats was: what if he also cheated on his age, like majority of players from his part of Africa, where cheating is well documented, in order for players to secure good deals (who are usually extremely poor and desperate). We even had our own Etoo and a club also knowingly cheated for years on his age. If a player is older than his official age=if he turns great for us=fine. If he won't turn good for us=we will milk more money from a potential buyer due to to a buyer believing that a player is younger than he is.
    I mean, a question like this is perfectly logical, since it happened 100s of times. But if we dig deeper into it, people will get revolted, they will call you names and get angry.
    Why?
    If I ask this question, I won't actually make Fati 16 or 18. I can't change the reality. He is either 16 or 18. We don't know. I have just asked a legit question.
    The answer is=with questions like this, we are crushing people's dreams and their picture of a certain player in their head.
    And currently that picture is=Fati is really 16 and he will become a beast. He will be one of our best players and with him one day, we will again be on a top of Europe.
    In that state of mind, a life is much simpler and happier for majority. And the future looks good.
    A simple test, for any fan reading this post about Fati. Honestly, how do you feel in this moment, even if you only slightly consider a thought than Fati might be actually 18 and that he is way weaker talent than he is, and that Barca's future is thus way less shiny than if he is 16?
    You (fans) will get angry and sad and you will hope that this possibility is not true.
    Also, some people will immediately get angry at me for writing this.
    But then, a serious question: Do I have anything to do with Fati's real age?
    Or have I just asked an objective question?
    The same applies for posts: Dembele is dumb. Samper will never be a good player etc.
    Every single time, we go through a same process.
    When I said 2 years ago that Dembele is dumb, I didn't actually lie. Also, I didn't make him dumb.
    Dembele was always dumb. I was just the first or among the first who asked that question.
    And people acted for 2 years as if I AM THE ENEMY. Lol.
    In reality, what happened?
    = Dembele was a key factor in heads of our fans as a leader of our future successful project.
    In heads of people, Dembele was a generational talent, better than Mbappe.
    Regardless of whether that is true, people will always opt for that option. They will always lean towards a positive side and overhyping our (young) players.
    Why=again, because that gives them HOPE for a better future. And without hope, what is the point in watching Barca? we are bunch of losers, supporting a losing club who doesn't have any future. And that goes against our survival and winning instincts where we always want to be winners and do (or cheer) for things which are good, winning and worth cheering for. If Dembele is dumb and Fati is 18, we are going against our DNA because we are supporting losers.

    And then, in the case of Dembele, people needed to solve an internal process in their heads where they needed to accept that Dembele is not that good, that he won't be our leader and that our future is less bright.
    But, a human brain usually has a simple solution for these situations=if one object of dreams fails, a brain will quickly just move attention to the next object who has some potential.
    So, Dembele failed, and people's brains and hearts quickly replaced him with Fati. And currently our 3 biggest hopes are: Frenkie, Arthur and Fati.
    That again means that a biggest sin is daring to post some flaws of these players.

    5. and then, imo, the last reason for fights all the time is=too much of our success in the last 10-15 years.
    People are spoiled, entitled and are expecting too much.
    Especially younger fans who started to follow Barca around Pep's and Messi's era and they are used to that=winning everything and playing the most beautiful in the world=is a normal thing for Barca.

    For me, the funniest thing about fighting is this mob/tribes thing.
    What happened last night is a perfect example:
    1. I was often accused in the past for cherrypicking stats (aka: posting only stats which suit my love/hate agenda towards a certain player to make him look better or worse).
    2. then a lot of users have called me that I am not posting ALL stats, but only stats which suit me (DonAk and DonAndres have called me often)
    3. now add into maths that DonAk and DonAndres are a part of the same "tribe" among Barca's fans since they share similar football views.
    4. now, DonAndres posted equally shit stats regarding Rakitic (lol, comparing his defensive stats with Busi who is a pivot, in order to prove how Raki was never actually a good defender. Yet, of course that a pivot Busi will have better defensive stats than any CM because he plays deeper and is involved in defending all the time. Similarly, of course that Lenglet or a fullback will always have better defensive stats than any CM, no matter how good a CM in defending, and even if a CB is very bad).
    5. so, regarding DonAndres, isn't it a hypocrisy to call someone a fraud (me) for cheryypicking stats, and then doing exactly the same or even dumber thing?
    6. even worse, when I pointed to that, DonAk came and defended DonAndres with saying: you did the same, lol.
    Ok, fine. I have did the same, and I was called for it. Now the same users who have called me are doing a similar thing.
    Someone might simplify this and say: this is about different footballing views.
    But for users who are looking at a bigger picture, this is a perfect example of a human nature, survival and getting into tribes to "win against the enemies".
    No matter what level of shit will DonAndres write, users like DonAk, Messi2140, KingLeo, Villarubi and similar=won't say a word.
    Regardless if they agree or not. Why? Because they are in the same tribe. They will need help and support in the future.
    And then, each of them has 2 things to battle with:
    1) they can save the energy for a fight against EV's defenders (the enemy tribe)
    2) or they can fight with eachother (among their tribe) and then lose a support in bigger battle against EV's defenders.
    Now add that survival mode into maths: and a brain of each of those users will decide what is more important for them=it is to "kill" EV's defenders in this moment.
    In short=this is why some users will never attack eachother, and yet, they will jump on every single word of users from the "enemy camp".
    I won't be a hypocrite, and I will say that my DNA and my brain works the same.
    Since I am in this "battle" for years, an animal inside of me also knows that I can't fight alone with 20 or 50 enemies. I will lose eventually.
    So, I am surrounding myself, like any animal, with animals with similar ideas, to have more chances against the "enemy tribe" once when we will fight with them again.
    This is why, no matter what shit I wrote, users like Tackle, Arizona Scott (where is he lately btw?), Khaled, Messi983, Joan, Vlad, Ursegor, Tricky and similar, will almost never jump on me, even though they know that I am wrong.
    For the same reasons. I am "one of them" and why fighting with me over some mistake/shit in my post, when they (or we) will profit more if we'll stick together in a more important battle against "enemies" on our forum.
    The funny thing about a human nature is: people always stick together as long as they have an interest.
    So, theoretically, DonAk, DonAndres, Villarubi, KingLeo are "friends" in this moment, as long as they have a bigger enemy (us, EV's defenders).
    But if they would get rid of us (or if we would stop posting), then there wouldn't be 2 tribes anymore (against EV and for EV).
    Then, with no clear enemies in sight, an animal nature and an urge to be a leader and a winner would wake up in those guys and they would start a battle inside of their current tribe and they would create 2-3 smaller fractions (one tribe would call for one type of football, the other would call for different ideas etc), and then they would start to fight and insult eachother, the same as what is happening between us currently.
    Again, I won't lie. The same would happen in "my tribe". If only 10 of us would stay on a forum, even among us we would start a new battle for leadership of our tribe and we would create 2-3 fractions between us who would start to fight in order to get leadership.

    To be continued in the post below...
    Don't mistake the silent majority as outnumbering the vocal minority. Most of us love your detailed posts BBZ.

    There's a reason Rakitic has been a key player for Croatia, Barca, and Sevilla. He's been a great servant to the club but it's time for him to go. One more reason as a rotation player to help us I'm big games and a treble to send him off with a bang.

  4. #11569
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    Funnily enough that silent majority (Ursegor, Xtroverto etc) all went into hiding after that Liverpool game? I wonder why
    Last edited by messi2140; 11th October 2019 at 11:08 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Valverde cheerleader in his natural habitat View Post
    Good, let them win the overrated CL and we'll continue to dominate La Liga.
    Quote Originally Posted by FCB1987 View Post
    CNN is probably the most reliable source of news

    #factsfirst
    Valverde: "I don't think about resigning and I don't feel like players have failed me."

  5. #11570
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    BBZ doesn't understand the tactical and managerial aspect of football. When you don't understand something, and not only that, but you refuse to learn about it as to become informed, and instead rely on some half baked agenda-driven stats, then of course you get called up for it.

    So, it's simple. BBZ doesn't know tactics at all most likely, and yet he posts about things which are heavy influenced by these aspects.

    BBZ is getting heat for nothing else than ageda driven nonsense backed with flimsy pseudo-arguments.
    You clearly don't agree with the way he views football and that is obviously fine. The point of a forum is to foster discussion between fans with different perspectives. I don't mind a few surface level insults being thrown around and although you have usually kept the debates fairly civil the same cannot be said about other users.

    If you find a user is deliberately being obtuse or is not worth engaging in a debate with simply end the conversation. It is that easy. Your last sentence about BBZ "getting heat for nothing else than agenda driven nonsense backed with flimsy pseudo-arguments" is patently false and pages upon pages of disgusting vitriol that has no place on a football forum can be pulled up to prove it. I honestly cannot believe some of the utter shite replies and meltdowns I am reading every time he makes a post. It has only gotten really bad the past month or two. Yet the lad still continues to post and is still reasonably polite.

    This has gone far beyond just him being "called up" for his "half baked agenda-driven stats." I know you are better than the generic #ValverdeOut spastic. These blokes surely won't listen to me, the least you could do is call these vermin out when they cross the line. Their behaviour should not be overlooked just because they support the popular narratives on the forum.

    The quality of discussion here will only continue to further degrade the longer this rubbish continues. Every new user that does not agree with all the consensus football opinions of the board will be immediately branded as a "troll, Bartomeu paid shill, alt-account" and quickly asked to be banned by a moderator. Only the few with a thick enough skin will continue posting.

    Guess it does not matter though as long as the same group of established users are able to sit on their perch while ideologically jerking each other off in a circle. Just silence any dissenters by the way of mob rule and submission via sheer numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by messi2140 View Post
    Funnily enough that silent majority (Ursegor, Xtroverto etc) all went into hiding after that Liverpool game? I wonder why
    This bollocks is exactly what I am referring to. How often does he actually engage in a proper footy discussion? Every post of his seems to be shaming other users. Muppet of a poster.
    Last edited by Tackle; 11th October 2019 at 11:16 AM.

  6. #11571
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackle View Post


    This bollocks is exactly what I am referring to. How often does he actually engage in a proper footy discussion? Every post of his seems to be shaming other users. Muppet of a poster.
    Error 404: self-awareness not found.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Valverde cheerleader in his natural habitat View Post
    Good, let them win the overrated CL and we'll continue to dominate La Liga.
    Quote Originally Posted by FCB1987 View Post
    CNN is probably the most reliable source of news

    #factsfirst
    Valverde: "I don't think about resigning and I don't feel like players have failed me."

  7. #11572
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    users from the "opponent tribe"
    Hmmmm....
    I've read your msg, just as I read all of them, and I'm still thinking.
    Not about the disputable content or factual content, but the essential notion.

    I've criticized you way too much, I do admit. I criticized you when I shouldn't have, I also admit that.
    But it was nothing personal, it was about football. Not about your general or sociological views, but simply football.
    Football, because I've sent my entire, often miserable life with this game, lived through great personal successes and horrible periods, but one thing remained at the end: the game which is beautiful and probably it was worth to dedicate a lifetime for it.

    So, for me personally, one cardinal question remains, if I've been your critique for some years anyway: which "tribe" do I belong to? At least according to your distinction.
    My personal problem is that I can't give an answer to that.
    I left this forum for two month, because it was really nasty and disgusting here. Not for me, very few ever insulted me in person (you have been definitely one of them, by repeatably questioning my identity, my past and my small personal dedication to the club, but it doesn't matter).
    I took a brake because the filth and purulence started to fill the entire forum, people did nothing else but bitingly bashing the players of their own favorite team.

    Okay, I sort of started posting a bit again, maybe I will retreat once again, who knows, but I'm still unaware of my "tribe".
    Maybe I'm also a "low IQ" guy, just as you have alone and single-underhandedly invented and introduced that extremely harmful assay here, but still, even if I'm stupid, I do not feel to be belonging to any tribe, anywhere, especially here.

    All I usually do, or try to do, is to defend the football players, generally, without specific names, for the simple reason that I used to be one of them and I think that bashing them, clapping them with all possible attributes are nasty, baseless and hurting. That's all.
    Are there Barca players, who would actually DESERVE having been drolled, flouted, regardless how bad they play or perform? I doubt that. Seriously.
    Why? Because criticizing a footballer is not the same phenomenon as bashing on him, and specially not questioning his mental abilities!

    Football players are in 98% of cases uneducated, simple, even primitive humans, with a gift to control a ball. The game is a collective effort, and it is complicated enough with tactics, setups, and another million things in the actual game-play, NOT to go lower than the lowest standards and step into the private sphere or personalities of the players.
    It's unfair, it's primitive in itself, and very very questionable if the silly accusations are simply based on idiotic press articles, gossips or on other forum messages by frustrated assholes.

    When you are a spectator in a stadium, it is often acceptable to shout out, to show off emotions, to jump if something interesting, nice or bad thing happens on the pitch, these are instant sentiences. But AFTER a given game, when emotions should have calmed, videos could be watched and replayed, there is no place for vehemency. It's the time for calm and objective analysis.

    Are you personally able to analyze things, games (even going back to many years)? Yes you are.
    Are you personally guilty in this forum to steer up emotions, specifically against some players? Yes you are.

    Is it enough to construe your frequent negative destructibility by just saying you are provoking others or having a sociological test on the small community? No. You have done much more than that.
    Are your footballing views highly biased towards defensive play, tall players, Rakitic or towards a bad coach who essentially ruined the typical Barca play? Yes they are.

    The ball is on your half now. You have to decide if your personal endearment towards the possible dullest English-mid-team football and its player-characters are the notions you wish to disseminate in this forum, or you could also be able to make some compromises regarding your views, which ARE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO THE BARCA FOOTBALLING PHILOSOPHY.

    And I'm still trying to identify myself with one of the "tribes"... Or perhaps I'm just a Robinson Crusoe still looking for his friend Friday...
    Last edited by Potroh; 11th October 2019 at 11:53 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by messi2140 View Post
    Error 404: self-awareness not found.
    You took a sarcastic quote from another user out of context and put it in your signature in an attempt humiliate him.

    Messi983 is one of the most level-headed posters on the forum and his general knowledge of La Liga is unrivalled.

    He has forgotten more about football than you will ever know and not one of your 4400 posts comes close to rivalling the quality of anything the "Valverde cheerleader" has written.

    Yet you shamelessly insult the lad every time you post.

    I feel ashamed for you.

  9. #11574
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackle View Post
    You clearly don't agree with the way he views football and that is obviously fine. The point of a forum is to foster discussion between fans with different perspectives. I don't mind a few surface level insults being thrown around and although you have usually kept the debates fairly civil the same cannot be said about other users.

    If you find a user is deliberately being obtuse or is not worth engaging in a debate with simply end the conversation. It is that easy. Your last sentence about BBZ "getting heat for nothing else than agenda driven nonsense backed with flimsy pseudo-arguments" is patently false and pages upon pages of disgusting vitriol that has no place on a football forum can be pulled up to prove it. I honestly cannot believe some of the utter shite replies and meltdowns I am reading every time he makes a post. It has only gotten really bad the past month or two. Yet the lad still continues to post and is still reasonably polite.

    This has gone far beyond just him being "called up" for his "half baked agenda-driven stats." I know you are better than the generic #ValverdeOut spastic. These blokes surely won't listen to me, the least you could do is call these vermin out when they cross the line. Their behaviour should not be overlooked just because they support the popular narratives on the forum.

    The quality of discussion here will only continue to further degrade the longer this rubbish continues. Every new user that does not agree with all the consensus football opinions of the board will be immediately branded as a "troll, Bartomeu paid shill, alt-account" and quickly asked to be banned by a moderator. Only the few with a thick enough skin will continue posting.

    Guess it does not matter though as long as the same group of established users are able to sit on their perch while ideologically jerking each other off in a circle. Just silence any dissenters by the way of mob rule and submission via sheer numbers.



    This bollocks is exactly what I am referring to. How often does he actually engage in a proper footy discussion? Every post of his seems to be shaming other users. Muppet of a poster.
    Forum de Amigos
    "I don't care what Barcaforum thinks, for me it's Gala XI y nada mas." - Ernesto Valverde.

  10. #11575
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackle View Post
    You took a sarcastic quote from another user out of context and put it in your signature in an attempt humiliate him.
    I guess his post about Valverde having one "bad" night was also one of his many sarcastic posts.

    Messi983 is one of the most level-headed posters on the forum and his general knowledge of La Liga is unrivalled.
    I had no idea that level-headed meant supporting mediocrity , but I guess you learn something new everyday

    He has forgotten more about football than you will ever know and not one of your 4400 posts comes close to rivalling the quality of anything the "Valverde cheerleader" has written.

    Yet you shamelessly insult the lad every time you post.
    Is it okay for you if I "insult" him in the Dembele thread ?

    I feel ashamed for you.
    Oh boy , how can I sleep today knowing that Tackle feels ashamed about me.
    Last edited by messi2140; 11th October 2019 at 12:20 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by A Valverde cheerleader in his natural habitat View Post
    Good, let them win the overrated CL and we'll continue to dominate La Liga.
    Quote Originally Posted by FCB1987 View Post
    CNN is probably the most reliable source of news

    #factsfirst
    Valverde: "I don't think about resigning and I don't feel like players have failed me."

  11. #11576
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    Quote Originally Posted by Potroh View Post
    So, for me personally, one cardinal question remains, if I've been your critique for some years anyway: which "tribe" do I belong to? At least according to your distinction.
    Imo, your footballing views and ideas regarding Barca are leaning towards the "majority tribe".
    Neymar is good, Raki is bad, beautiful play is a key, EV is bad, roughly.

    But since you are older, you distanced yourself in terms of tribes.
    You aren't exactly in a tribe like guys whom I have mentioned.

    Ideologically you are leaning towards that tribe, but in actions=you are a loner without tribes.
    Even though you are triggered more often by posts from me and guys "from my tribe" since they have different footballing ideas than you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Potroh View Post
    Maybe I'm also a "low IQ" guy, as you have alone and single-underhandedly invented and introduced that extremely harmful assay here, but still, even if I'm stupid, I do feel to be belonging to any tribe, anywhere, especially here.
    No, you are a high IQ.
    I mean, even guys like Andres, Serghei, DonAk and lots of others with whom I don't agree are high IQ guys, we just share different views on football and we are fighting due to being animals in enemy tribes.

    Regarding Dembele's IQ, since I am the first guy who started to mention that he is dumb and low IQ (which was proven to be true in the end).
    I see that you are offended with that.
    Let's not get too deep and into circles with that.
    For me, IQ is a skill.
    If Busi is slow, if Raki has slow hips and bad passes, if Suarez is old and fat, what is wrong with saying that Dembele isn't the brightest guy in the world and that due to THAT he will struggle in tactical improvement, reading the game and similar.
    Ok, you were a coach and you have a different relationship with players.
    I really don't know what more to say about this: I don't mean anything bad. IQ is just a skill which some players lack. The same as pace, technique, bravery and similar.

    These next two quotes are more or less the same, so I will reply below:

    Quote Originally Posted by Potroh View Post
    Are your footballing views highly biased towards defensive play, tall players, Rakitic or towards a bad coach who essentially ruined the typical Barca play? Yes the are.

    The ball is on your half now. You have to decide if your personal endearment towards the dullest English-mid-team football and its player-characters are the notions you wish to disseminate in this forum, or you could also be able to make some compromises regarding your views, which ARE DIAMETRICALLY OPPOSED TO THE BARCA FOOTBALLING PHILOSOPHY.
    Quote Originally Posted by EdmondDantes View Post
    Here's my theory, I've alluded to this once before but now I'll ask again: BBZ, earnestly, are you posting 'less and less' because along the years you morphed into more of a Rakitic fan than a Barca one?
    And now Rakitic is barely playing, you're becoming - either consciously or subconsciously - more and more indifferent?
    You've said numerous times you don't particularly enjoy when we play beautiful football anyway, so it's not like you'll be missing much if you don't watch every game since now you no longer have your main reason to watch the game.
    Especially now when you add the fact Arthur, who's been our best player this season, is doing so well. And we all know you disliked him even before last year's pre-season...
    It's just an assumption though, but is there any truth to that? I'm genuinely asking.
    I have told my story a few times.
    Some people are fans of Barca because they love Messi.
    Some people are fans of Barca since Pep's years.
    Some are fans of Barca because they were born in Catalonia, so they "have" to support Barca no matter what.
    Other guys have some random reasons.

    In late 80s, when I was like 7, I was at my grandpa's home in Zagreb, capital of Croatia.
    I didn't know too much about football, except kicking the ball and running with my friends at school.
    My grandpa told me one day (and he was holding a nice chocolate in his hands): Hey, Bbz, do you want a chocolate?
    I ran to him and said: yeeessss!!
    He said: Wait... and he has put the chocolate behind his back (as if he won't give it to me).
    He continued: I will give you a chocolate ONLY if you promise me that you will be a fan of Dinamo Zagreb forever.
    I was 7 years old. I wanted a chocolate, and since my grandpa loved Dinamo, it sounded like a good deal. If he likes that club, it must be a good club, isn't it?
    I said: yes.
    He gave me a chocolate, and now 30 years later, I am still a fan of Dinamo in my domestic country.
    I still remember that day like it was yesterday.

    So, I am not a fan of Dinamo because they play nice, attacking or who knows what.
    I am their fan because my grandpa tricked me aged 7. And that's the whole truth.
    There aren't any emotional or deeper reasons behind me and Dinamo.

    Regarding international club football, I remember first watching Champions cup in 1989 or something like that.
    It was semis of a CL Milan:Real. It ended 5:0 for Milan with Gullit and Van Basten scoring goals.
    Since I was a kid and I didn't watch too much football before that, in my head I had only one thought:
    Omg, this AC Milan club is the best club in the world and Van Basten and Gullit are 2 best players in the world!
    I will be a fan of AC Milan from now on, since THEY ARE THE BEST!

    You see, imo, when you are a kid, it is all random.
    The team which is the best in the days when you are a kid will leave the biggest mark on you and your development.

    So, aged 8-12, I was a fan of Ac Milan.
    Then, iirc in 1993, I watched a game with my dad, it was Barca:Porto or someone in a CL semis at Camp Nou.
    Hristo Stoichkov scored 2 goals.
    And my idea again was: omg, he is the best player in the world!
    From that night, my 2 clubs were Barca and Milan.
    I don't know WHY or HOW, but for some reason: Barca became a number 1, and Milan my 2nd beloved club.
    And when Barca and Milan played in a CL finals of 1994, I was cheering for Barca.
    And we lost heavily 0:4.

    Now, you see, imo, this is all connected with psychology, our development and moments in life which make deep impressions on us.
    Milan:Barca was my first Barca's CL final, and I was so sad that night.
    But even worse, I was kinda mad at our team, because we were so outplayed, so outrun and humiliated.
    The whole match looked as if 11 boys are playing vs 11 men.
    So, you see, my first footballing lesson as a kid was: Ac Milan plays serious, tactical, physical, cautious and smart football.
    While Barca plays overly attacking, naive and with too light players.
    And my footballing lesson from that night was: when a team like Milan and Barca meet=Milan will outplay them as rookies.
    This is what all neutral commentators and papers were saying in those days and that left huge scars on me.

    So, Barca remained my No1 club, but from that night, those words from press and commentators on my Tv, always remained in my head: Barca played too attacking, Barca played too naive, Barca couldn't cope physically with AC Milan's players.
    And then, what is worse: in upcoming years in late 90s, Barca were KO'd 3 times in a group stage of a CL in extremely naive ways (losing to teams like Dynamo Kiev, Newcastle, Psv, Fenerbahce, Leeds), a total disgrace.
    Even worse, in those days Seria A was considered as NBA of football. And those teams played both technical, tactical and had a mix of technique&physique.
    While Barca was a team of naive overly attacking physically light players=who more or less, lose EVERY SINGLE time when they face more serious teams like Milan and Juve.

    So, you see, during my teen years, Barca (even though my favorite club) was a symbol of mockery in Europe.
    Something like Psg or Arsenal in recent years: a club for whom you know that no matter what they will do, they will eventually lose in the end, by more or less anyone.

    So, you see, from 1993 till 2006, I had to wait 14 (!!) years for Barca to win a CL.
    And during those 14 years, my main idea (and how press and random footballers and commentators were saying)=Barca's football is just not good enough for European titles.

    So, you see, Barca was an example of a club who is just not good enough for Europe.
    And in those years, we played:
    1. very beautiful
    2. very attacking
    3. bad in defense
    4. with very light players (Sergi, Albert Ferrer, Guardiola, Xavi, Frank De Boer, Zenden, Overmars, Saviola etc).

    So, for 14 years I had to wait for Barca "to grow" up and to add some muscles into a team, to add a slightly more defensive approach and to play wiser.
    And Rijkaard has finally did it in 2006'.
    So, during those 14 years, we have always played "Barca's way", and we were an ultimate shit in terms of a CL results in those years.
    And the FIRST time when a coach (Rijkaard) has actually moved away from Barca's way with playing 2 workhorses in Edmilson/Van Bommel/Motta instead of a classical Deco-Xavi-Iniesta and similar combinations=we won a CL.
    Plus, that was the first time ever that Barca played in an Italian way in a CL, playing cautiously and smart.
    That year, we won 2:1 against Chelsea in 1/8 in the first leg, and 1:0 at San Siro vs Milan in semis. And in both 2nd legs, at home, we played very cautiously and unlike Barca.
    We didn't attack too much, we were keeping the ball in an Italian way and playing for a score, not for beauty.

    So, you see, during my history as Barca's fan:
    1. light players, playing too attacking, playing too naive and too emotional=was a symbol of failures for 14 years in a row
    2. and what you guys call: English/Italian/defensive football=was the only season when we have actually won a CL.
    After 2006, Rijkaard sold Van Bommel. Xavi was back after a knee injury and we returned to Xavi-Deco (Barca's DNA light midfield).
    We returned to Barca's DNA football and were eaten alive by Liverpool and Man Utd in 2007 and 2008, as always.
    So, in my first 16 years of watching Barca, from 1993-2008:
    We played 15 times in Barca's way=ended as a disaster every single time.
    Played only once in a more cautious/defensive/pragmatic way=won a CL.

    And then you have 4 Pep's years, where probably 90% of fans here started to watch Barca.
    For those guys, Pep's football, light players, attacking like crazy=is Barca's DNA, it is "who we are" and the way to go.
    Yet, for me, Pep's 4 years are an anomaly in which he was able to turn a style which is otherwise a losing style=into a winning style for 3 years, ONLY because he had 3 best players ever in Messi, Xavi, Iniesta.
    For me: years 1993-2005 and years after Pep=are a real state of Barca's DNA football. That style is usually NOT good enough and we will more or less always lose in naive and in unlucky ways against more all-rounded teams.

    So, you see, for me: Pep's football was an anomaly due to individually TOO good players, and that was the only moment ever for Spain and Barca that their type of football worked.
    For 90% of fans here, Pep's football left a huge impact and for them=it is a way to go, and everything else is a mistake.

    More or less, I hope you will understand my "thoughts" more now after this story and why I always lean towards more physique, more defense, more cautious approach etc.
    Also, regarding EV, since I had 14 years of misery from 1993-2006, to me our last 2 years are really not a big deal.
    My expectations are not that high.

    This is why I often say: I still didn't see any evidences that our "Barca's DNA" system is a winning system once when you remove Messi (and Mr. TikiTaka himself: Xavi).
    In 90s and 00s without Messi, we couldn't win anything with our style.
    Spain couldn't win anything for 100 years without Xavi.
    Then: BOTH barca and Spain were winning from 2008-2012.
    Then Xavi was gone:
    Barca couldn't win it anymore (ok, except in 2015, where we, ironically, again won it when we moved away from our style and played more defensively, pragmatic, counterattacking and with giving away possession under Lucho).
    Pep, the same story. 6 CL attempts after Barca with his system (without Xavi and Messi to turn that system into a winning system)=a horrible defeat after defeat, quite similar to Barca's defeats in 90s.

    ** EdmondDantes, you see that this story don't have too much with Rakitic.
    More with us losing for 14 years from Italian type of players, while we had 3 players like Arthur/Puig in a field and we were always eaten alive (except during 3 Pep's years where it worked for a short period).

    Catalinutz will get angry for me posting the same video again, but this is match which formed my opinion and left 100s of scars.
    Also, the whole 90s and early 00s, looked exactly the same as that match: always naive, too attacking, lost in defense, weak in the air, losing majority all over the field to physically stronger (and still technically decent) teams.
    I could poke and say: we didn't even have EV and Rakitic in 90s and 00s, yet we were always losing in exactly the same way:
    Last edited by BBZ8800; 11th October 2019 at 12:46 PM.
    FU Barto, FU the whole board, FU Abidal, FU Neymar. The end of Barca

  12. #11577
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    Last thing I want is for BBZ to stop posting due to bad atmosphere in the forum. But you get a feeling that no matter what you post in response, it just flies through him as he continues to make the same claims, completely refusing to tackle any kind of counter-argument someone brings up. Leaving aside the parts that might or might not be interpreted as insults (debatable anyway if low tactical knowledge can be called an insult), there are some really high quality comments that touch the subjects he brings up. And yet he takes in nothing from them.

    My problem is he refuses to enter some debates which shake his way of viewing football in general. Because of this he doesn't develop in this area. Which is why his posts are very repetitive in nature.

    I see this forum as a platform where you can learn new things from others, and also share things with others who maybe don't know them as well too. For example in my case, I've learned a lot of background info of Barcelona's history, fans, political scene at the club, former legends (from DonAK, BBZ etc). Things which have helped me understand some aspects better. On the other hand, I share a lot more tactical stuff than I learn here (so low take in, higher input). Most of the things I learn to develop myself in this area are outside sources to this forum, because this forum is very low on tactical aspects. Users aren't as passionate to talk about why some things happen on the field, and prefer to simply pin everything down to form, player quality, age.

    For others it can be the opposite. They learn fewer things in some areas, because they already know them better than me, but they learn some new stuff in the tactical field, in terms of philosophy of possession game etc. It's different.

    In my opinion, from the senior users here, BBZ has the lowest percentage of gained insight through what everyone else posts, and the highest percentage of input. Like he puts up the most content, and assimilates the lowest amount of good ideas thrown around here. Other posters gain things, and share things in close enough ratios. BBZ puts up huge posts and takes in almost nothing.
    Last edited by serghei; 11th October 2019 at 01:11 PM.

  13. #11578
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    I can't believe people are still shitting on him even when he is benched. Unbelievable stuff! I don't agree that BBZ is refusing a debate. Majority of fans here just tend to write "Rakitic is shit" and "Arthur is a world class". Just for once some of you should elaborate your opinion.

    Don't get me wrong I love Raki but as I said last summer it's time to go. He should have left and he will probably leave this winter. Posting all of the time ONE pick from Anfield and writing "PAIN" or similar bullshit bellow is childish and proves nothing except that opinion of those people is biased. When you tend to spit on someone and praise someone else provide some numbers so all of us can see how that other player is superior to Rakitic or vice versa.

    In the end BBZ is basically only guy here who tends to explain his opinion. As I said before we can agree or disagree with him but at least he tries to elaborate his opinion. I also can't believe this forum is able to single out one player as a main reason for last seasons debacle against Lpool when literally all players were HORRIBLE!

    I respect different opinions and all of you should but what I don't respect are double standards for some players regardless of the fact if they were raised in La Masia or not.
    Last edited by Raketa10; 11th October 2019 at 01:18 PM.

  14. #11579
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raketa10 View Post
    In the end BBZ is basically only guy here who tends to explain his opinion. As I said before we can agree or disagree with him but at least he tries to elaborate his opinion. In the end I can't believe this forum is able to single out one player as a main reason for last season debacle against Lpool when literally all players were HORRIBLE!
    Far from it.

    BBZ is the guy who makes the most effort to explain his opinion. That I would agree with.

    The worst were the manager and the midfield in that game. Barcelona's way of playing is build on the midfield having the ability to hold off the opponent and fight to have the initiative in the game. The manager set us up in a way that denied us that, through the players and the tactics he used in the game.
    Last edited by serghei; 11th October 2019 at 01:19 PM.

  15. #11580
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raketa10 View Post
    I can't believe people are still shitting on him even when he is benched. Unbelievable stuff! I don't agree that BBZ is refusing a debate. Majority of fans here just tend to write "Rakitic is shit" and "Arthur is a world class". Just for once some of you should elaborate your opinion.

    Don't get me wrong I love Raki but as I said last summer it's time to go. He should have left and he will probably leave this winter. Posting all of the time ONE pick from Anfield and writing "PAIN" or similar bullshit bellow is childish and proves nothing except that opinion of those people is biased. When you tend to spit on someone and praise someone else provide some numbers so all of us can see how that other player is superior to Rakitic or vice versa.

    In the end BBZ is basically only guy here who tends to explain his opinion. As I said before we can agree or disagree with him but at least he tries to elaborate his opinion. In the end I can't believe this forum is able to single out one player as a main reason for last season debacle against Lpool when literally all players were HORRIBLE!
    Lately I also agree that Raki's time here is gone.
    Even yesterday for Croatia, it was clear that his legs are gone and that a team played move fluent when he didn't play.
    In terms of movement, it seems that his level dropped even more compared to a last season (which is expected, since he is old and declining quite fast).
    Imo, there isn't too much to discuss at all about this topic.

    Except revisionism.
    If he is finished today, that doesn't mean that he was always shit (and pain) for Barca, especially considering that our other midfield options were 35 years old Xavi, Arda, Denis, Gomes, Samper, Coutinho, Paulinho and similar.
    FU Barto, FU the whole board, FU Abidal, FU Neymar. The end of Barca

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