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Thread: 4 - Ivan Rakitić

  1. #11551
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    People are making it out to seem that Rakitic was an absolutely amazing player that was underrated and scapegoated for 2 years and is only just now declined. In reality, he was never actually as good as most people claimed and he got credit for doing way more than he actually did, and now people are catching up and realizing it. Something about his playstyle is so absurdly deceptive that it lulls people into believing passenger/absentee performances are "good".

    It was hilarious how much of a defensive beast he was made out to be. If we're going just by duel-winning stats (which I maintain is a shallow level of critique) then Vidal is far and away the best defensive midfielder we've had in the past few years. It's clear he's great in this aspect, so the eye tests back up the stats.

    Busquets has been criticized as a slow, statuesque turnstile who is years off his prime and a liability. This is a criticism that is fair and it is clear Busi is nowhere near what he once was. Yet, in the same breath, people made Rakitic out to be this prime workhorse and well rounded machine who had no weaknesses and high level competency everywhere on the pitch despite:

    -Busquets completely dwarfing Rakitic in duel winning stats every single year (tackles, interceptions, aerial duels, etc.)
    -Busquets having equal or better distance covered stats per game in BOTH the CL and the World Cup
    -Rakitic consistently being well below average in distance covered stats in the CL for Barca
    -Rakitic being outperformed in the WC in distance covered by most other key players (Modric, Mandzukic, Perisic, Rebic)
    -Rakitic being thoroughly outperformed in defensive duel-winning stats by most other Croatia players including fucking attackers like Mandzu, Rebic, Perisic, etc.

    Where exactly was he so elite and superior on a consistent basis that he warranted such a reputation? A handful of wild, disorganized Clasicos? 2 games against Argentina and England? A few penalties in shootouts? In offense it is even more clear how little value he has. Let's ignore goals and assists because BBZ and co. seem to think that Arthur scoring/assisting a lot now is some kind of anomaly, and others have argued that Rakitic's goals/assists have not had ANY significant impact towards Barca's success in many years.

    Rakitic plays football as if he is just going through the motions in a passing warmup drill with no defenders. Almost never makes the run into space to receive the pass, he pretty much always just asks for the ball at his feet in static positions away from defenders. When he is on the ball, he absolutely never makes a run with it as he's completely paralyzed with fear at the thought of confronting a defender. When he does pass it off, he never makes a followup run afterwards to keep transitioning the play with XYZ purpose. He just dumps it off to the fullback and waits again for his turn to keep the ball moving merrily along in safe areas with little to no objective.

    There's no change in momentum that occurs from before Rakitic gets the ball to after he passes it away. No change in pace of the play. No improvement in our position with the ball to attack defenses from a better angle. Most of the time, not even any forward progression of the ball. What exactly is gained by Rakitic's input in our possession play? Nothing, pretty much a zero-sum.

    Contrast that with Arthur or FDJ. They are constantly active in either checking in to receive the ball when the carrier is under pressure, or making a run into a pocket of space where they can receive the ball and keep the play moving dynamically. After they make the pass, they are always on the lookout for a followup run to keep things moving. They don't just stand there idly twiddling their thumbs and waiting for the other player to do something, they make supporting plays and runs.

    When they are on the ball, they are confident in their dribbling abilities and constantly drag defenders out of positions with their ball carrying which opens up space for other players to run into. Effective play ON the ball is critical in opening up space for other players to make effective runs OFF the ball. They also spend this time on the ball scanning for 3-4 different options they can play it to and judging which one is the most valuable play, unlike Rakitic who pretty much immediately dumps the ball to the first outlet he sees and the most convenient one (including his long balls, which are always just lazy switches).

    Consider it in the case of Messi. FDJ recently said:

    "Playing with Leo is easier, he does everything well. When he gives you the ball it's as if it has instructions with it and you have to do it."

    I think this is an exceptional quote from FDJ. It's uncanny how every time you see Messi cut in and beat that first defender, there is immediately a clear path to goal from Messi's feet and Alba/Suarez/Vidal/whoever are already making runs into clear channels where Leo can hit a dagger pass. Part of it is how much they've drilled those specific plays, but it's also because once Messi has disrupted the defense and created that space it becomes OBVIOUS where the runs should be made and where the dangerous positions are for players to run into.

    No one can effectively make runs off the ball when the possession is sterile and static, but once someone like Messi drags defenders out with the dribble the situation becomes dynamic and suddenly 3 or 4 players can make runs that create effective paths to the goal. Messi creates motion when the sterile Barca offense of the past 2 seasons was thoroughly lacking in it.

    FDJ and Arthur are obviously nowhere near as brutally effective as Messi, but their elite ball carrying in our possession play creates MOTION offense instead of STATIC offense. Rakitic is a champion of the latter, and there are maybe a handful of times over multiple entire seasons where he has demonstrated an ability to turn static plays into motion ones.
    "Dani Jarque, siempre con nosotros"
    -Andres Iniesta

  2. #11552
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    Quote Originally Posted by messi2140 View Post
    Seems like some people need their mind refreshed.

    Ivan "Mourinho praised him" Lamapardtic in all his glory.

    Why don't you pull Jordi Alba highlights from that match also? It's absolutely hypocritical to blame one player for that defeat. Entire team was horrible and Rakitic is not more or less guilty than any other player that day.
    Last edited by Raketa10; 10th October 2019 at 10:24 PM.

  3. #11553
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    Forget everything, the fact that he was garbage, that Valverde overplayed him and everything else.

    His interview in the summer alone, begging for contract renewals all the time, saying he was waiting for Presi to make a call, was embarrassing. This guy thought he was untouchable and played like it too.

    Rakitic forgot that one trait which led to his path to becoming a Barcelona player. Humility.

    Or the easier choice. Just shut up.


  4. #11554
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonAndres View Post
    Busquets has been criticized as a slow, statuesque turnstile who is years off his prime and a liability. This is a criticism that is fair and it is clear Busi is nowhere near what he once was. Yet, in the same breath, people made Rakitic out to be this prime workhorse and well rounded machine who had no weaknesses and high level competency everywhere on the pitch despite:

    -Busquets completely dwarfing Rakitic in duel winning stats every single year (tackles, interceptions, aerial duels, etc.)
    -Busquets having equal or better distance covered stats per game in BOTH the CL and the World Cup
    -Rakitic consistently being well below average in distance covered stats in the CL for Barca
    -Rakitic being outperformed in the WC in distance covered by most other key players (Modric, Mandzukic, Perisic, Rebic)
    -Rakitic being thoroughly outperformed in defensive duel-winning stats by most other Croatia players including fucking attackers like Mandzu, Rebic, Perisic, etc.
    I am often accused for stats twisting, but this is a new level.
    Again, I am proud of you, Don.

    1. comparing CM and his defensive stats to a pivot Busquets.
    Should I even ask what would happen if I would dare to compare Arthur's stats to Busi's?
    I would get 20 000 insults in 2 hours and requests to ban me (or to commit suicide, like one user mentioned, lol).
    2. You are mentioning Vidal, who came in 2018/19 and Busi.
    In seasons 2014/15, 2015/16, 2016/17 and 2017/18, who were the other options for a somewhat hardworking CM in our midfield and for even tiny bits of stature and physique, when other options were Iniesta, Denis, Gomes, Arda, Samper, Coutinho and Paulinho?

    Today, we have Frenkie who is hardworking, defender and TECHNICAL and Arthur who has some areas which can cover things which Rakitic was doing for years.
    So, a 31 years old Rakitic is not needed anymore.
    2015 or 2016, he was younger, plus players in our rooster had way different (defensive or hardworking) skills.
    But what you are doing is a revisionism.

    For years we had Messi who didn't track back and Suarez.
    2 players for whom someone else needed to babysit and defend.
    Rakitic was good for that job for years.

    Quote Originally Posted by DonAndres View Post
    FDJ and Arthur are obviously nowhere near as brutally effective as Messi, but their elite ball carrying in our possession play creates MOTION offense instead of STATIC offense. Rakitic is a champion of the latter, and there are maybe a handful of times over multiple entire seasons where he has demonstrated an ability to turn static plays into motion ones.
    Which is all true.
    But sadly, football is played in both ways.

    And as said numerous times, we haven't tested yet how Frenkie-Arthur duo will carry a burden of having to cover for 2-3 lazy guys in attack on an Anfield in a spring of 2020'.

    Again, hold your horses.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raketa10 View Post
    Why don't you pull Jordi Alba highlights from that match also? It's absolutely hypocritical to blame one player for that defeat. Entire team was horrible and Rakitic is not more or less guilty than any other player that day.
    Arthur lost a similar ball last week, no one ever mentioned it.
    Or even worse, on the edge of the box, while being the last man, dribbling through 3 opponents.

    Imagine one of these guys making fun of Arthur, just for an example.
    Imagine Frenkie doing a similar mistake on Anfield 2020.
    Do you think that Messi2140 will make fun of him for years? I doubt. Interesting.
    Last edited by BBZ8800; 10th October 2019 at 10:30 PM.
    FU Barto, FU the whole board, FU Abidal, FU Neymar. The end of Barca

  5. #11555
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    Imagine calling out other people for stats twisting when you're infamous for making up shit, lying about what others have said or not and then posting obscure, irrelevant stats 24/7.

    Never seen a more desperate man on football forums. Not sure why I'm surprised since you were actively rooting for one of our players to fail a few years ago, just so you could be proven right.

    The reason I believe people go to extremes all the time is because of your shitposting on every thread of players you hate.


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    Quote Originally Posted by DonAK View Post
    Imagine calling out other people for stats twisting when you're infamous for making up shit, lying about what others have said or not and then posting obscure, irrelevant stats 24/7.

    Never seen a more desperate man on football forums. Not sure why I'm surprised since you were actively rooting for one of our players to fail a few years ago, just so you could be proven right.

    The reason I believe people go to extremes all the time is because of your shitposting on every thread of players you hate.
    Aye. What incredible irony mate.

    How is that any different or worse than actively rooting for our manager to fail? At least the failures of a single player do not prevent the team as a collective unit from being successful, whereas the failure of a manager undoubtedly does.

    There are many on this forum that would like nothing more than to see us thrashed in the CL again so they can be "proven" right and claim some petty superiority on a message board. Just take a gander at the disappointment in the Valverde thread after we win a match, even after playing well.

    I also cannot be arsed with the petulant argument that "getting rid of Valverde is worth short term losses as he is a fraud and winning titles will only further his destruction of the club." Okay, then what is to stop another user from saying "getting rid of X player is worth short term losses as he is a fraud and a few deceiving performances will only further the destruction of our starting XI."

    Apply your ridiculous standards consistently or pipe down and wet the bed in silence.

  7. #11557
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    Quote Originally Posted by DonAK View Post
    Imagine calling out other people for stats twisting when you're infamous for making up shit, lying about what others have said or not and then posting obscure, irrelevant stats 24/7.

    Never seen a more desperate man on football forums. Not sure why I'm surprised since you were actively rooting for one of our players to fail a few years ago, just so you could be proven right.

    The reason I believe people go to extremes all the time is because of your shitposting on every thread of players you hate.
    As Tackle replied:
    Quote Originally Posted by Tackle View Post
    Aye. What incredible irony mate.
    How is that any different or worse than actively rooting for our manager to fail?
    How is that different to shit about EV or Rakitic which let's say the last 3-4-5 posts in this thread are talking about?

    But let me guess: the mob/majority has an opinion on EV/favorite toys/hated players.
    And then shitting on EV/Rakitic/Suarez is a good thing and good for club's future.

    Different opinions are cancerous and stattwisting.

    Come on, Don, be a better man then me.
    Why don't you call DonAndres for shitposting in a few posts above?

    Lel. A clown calling the other clown=a clown
    Barcaforum hypocrisy and human nature in 3 lines of text.
    Sit down, I am proud of you.
    FU Barto, FU the whole board, FU Abidal, FU Neymar. The end of Barca

  8. #11558
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    So, a 31 years old Rakitic is not needed anymore.
    Yeah, that seems to be the case and EV has realized that way too late.
    And just because he reached that age barrier, it is almost natural. So even your own 6543 words and unimportant stats, in every single message, will hardly be enough to achieve his resurrection and eternal life in the Barca team.

    Rakitic was good for that job for years.
    He was. But time passes and his time is over.
    It's much better to accept this inevitable fact than childishly fight for your beloved favorite doll, specially in a forum like this, even if it is filled with your fellow Croats.

    Arthur lost a similar ball last week, no one ever mentioned it.
    That's the most childish remark I read from you so far.
    How can you compare an actually easily won LaLiga home game to Anfield???

    At the same time it also shows your actual mistake: you are still not watching a game objectively, rather you look for good moves from your favorites and bad movements by your condescend enemy-players.

    Psychologically speaking: you need two single sentences here:
    1. I love Rakitic.
    2. I hate Arthur (and Neymar and Semedo and Dembele and and and...)

    Believe me everybody will understand that.
    But only very few understand the meaningless stats and the redundantly long and repetitious reasoning, in order to dress up a highly subjective opinion, as if it was the objective truth.
    Case lost. No need to weep further, it won't change the inevitable.

  9. #11559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapi View Post

    Psychologically speaking: you need two single sentences here:
    1. I love Rakitic.
    2. I hate Arthur (and Neymar and Semedo and Dembele and and and...)
    Or those 2 sentences combined in one:
    I hate Arthur because since he came here and started to perform, people started to realize that my beloved Ivan is bad.

    Just say it already @BBZ8800.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raketa10 View Post
    Why don't you pull Jordi Alba highlights from that match also? It's absolutely hypocritical to blame one player for that defeat. Entire team was horrible and Rakitic is not more or less guilty than any other player that day.
    Why every time your country man Rakitic gets criticized for a good reason, your fist reaction is always the same "but did you see XYZ (insert name, often it’s Busquets) ? Why don’t you criticize XYZ ?" huh ?

    Mate, don’t think it’s personal but a lot of your posts consist of you reacting to someone giving his opinion about one of your favorite players. And quite often it doesn’t even address football aspects, it’s just you being like "stop criticizing my favorites". Many times I tried to engage a real football based debate with you, but you always ignore.

    Get real my man.
    Last edited by YodaMaster; 11th October 2019 at 12:59 AM.

  11. #11561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tackle View Post
    Aye. What incredible irony mate.

    How is that any different or worse than actively rooting for our manager to fail?
    It's a very simple logic. Getting rid of an average manager like Valverde and appointing a good one instead improves the team. Wishing one of your two best midfielders to fail means you want to see Rakitic being a part of another historic humiliation. That's literally the opposite of improving the team.

    Arthur is the future of this team. Valverde is not.
    Last edited by serghei; 11th October 2019 at 05:17 AM.

  12. #11562
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    Quote Originally Posted by serghei View Post
    It's a very simple logic. Getting rid of an average manager like Valverde and appointing a good one instead improves the team.
    Top stuff.

    You can use whatever logic you want, but be consistent.

    If the short term sacrifice of throwing this season away to simply sack Valverde and replace him an unknown entity sounds like a good proposition to you then just don't go on crusades against other posters because they don't support a player you are a fan of.

    BBZ has been accused of actively rooting for one of our players to fail. I cannot comment on those accusations as they are probably before my time on this forum, but even if they are true this forum should have no problem with it if you lot want to maintain even a shred of logical consistency.

    What if BBZ believes Semedo for example is a fraud and his misleading performances are only furthering his stay at the club, therefore he should fail miserably as soon as possible so we can replace him with a "good" RB? Similar to Valverde, Semedo has had plenty of disaster performances and has many flaws in his game. A new RB would be a complete unknown as would Valverde's potential replacement, but he is operating under the assumption the new RB will be "good," just as you believe in the premise of the new manager surely being better than Valverde.

    You cannot seriously wish for the manager of your own club to fail for the "greater good" only to go around shaming other users under the assumption they want X player to fail simply because you are personally a fan of said player. You have no right, nor are you in any position to claim moral superiority because you believe your subjective intent behind wanting the club to suffer is supposedly better than another poster's.

    What a crock of shite and the epitome of hypocrisy. "Those who live in glass houses should not throw stones."

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    ** Warning: this post contains 23 800 characters, so I had to split it in two posts

    Part 1:
    I have said a few times that there are tons of things to learn even from on online community which can help you in all other aspects of life.
    I had suspicions in the past that a person more or less can't fight against the majority/mob in any area of life.
    Or that it is very rare with a successful outcome.
    And it is confirming here.

    I am posting less often lately and I will probably post less, because when you sum it all, it is not worth it.
    Here is why:
    For a rookie reader, it may seem that all fights (not me, but from any users) are more or less about football.
    But when you dig a little deeper, one can understand that football is probably only 50% of fighting here.

    User @Potroh and some others asked lately why is there so much negativity in any topic in recent Months.
    Imo, there are 5 main reasons:
    1. a human nature. We are as individuals wired and created to SURVIVE and to win.
    Life and everything in it is a battle. Our genes are forcing us to be "winners" in everything what we do in life.
    That means: try to survive, try to not get hit by a car today (or eaten by a bear in the past), try to make more money than people around you, try to get the best girlfriend possible etc.
    Similar rules could apply here: try to know as much as possible about football. Try to be the best in judgements of players, coaches, tactics, club's future, everything regarding football.

    And on a football level, then you get a pissing contest: Roberto is good. Roberto is not. You are an idiot, Roberto is good. No, you are an idiot, Roberto is not good.
    The same happens in every single topic.
    So, individuals, survival instincts and egos are a reason no1 for fighting. We can't escape those.

    2. no 2 is, as I have wrote yesterday: our animal urges to get into tribes.
    Since again: a life is a survival battle. Everyone fights for himself, but it is easier to survive battles and escape from enemies if you surround yourself with more people (especially if you share some bond, like being a family or having a similar beliefs/ideas).
    In the early days of humans, if you were attacked by a bear or by another tribe, was it easier to fight with a bear on your own or helped by 20 guys from your tribe?
    Or, if another tribe has attacked you, was it easier to fight against them in 1 vs 20 or with a help from your friends in 20 vs 20?
    That urge (to get into tribes) is also coded in our DNA as a part of those survival instincts (and how to escape death and problems more easily).
    On a Barca forum, this part of a human nature is showing all the time.
    A general idea of a majority of Barca's fans are:
    1) we play beautiful football and we should always play that way
    2) Pep is a God on Earth, no one has ever played better and we should aim to copy everything what he did till the end of a universe (a type of light players, a type of a system, tactics, passes, everything).
    3) then there is a strong urge in people to have something to look for the in the future, which in this case means: people want to see young players so that they will have something to look for. If there is no young players and young hopes, people are sad and their dreams for a better future are crushed.
    From this area we have an obsession about any semi decent La Masia kid or a huge bias towards all young players whom we signed and a lot of hate towards players who are past their 30s.
    Why? Because people see young players as an opportunity to have a bright future.
    While older players are almost done, and even if they are still good, people don't see them in longterm (dreamy) plans and so they want to get rid of them quite soon. To make space for YOUNG La Masia players and YOUNG players bought.
    Of course, an objective quality of a young player is not too important here, because people will offer their dreamy alibies: he is young and has potential.
    If a player has flaws: he will fix them, he is young.
    Now insert young players like Puig, Alena, Oriol, Fati, Wague, Todibo and the bias is quite obvious, regardless of their actual footballing quality.
    Majority of fans share the same views: young guys are good. Older guys are bad.
    Now insert older players: Rakitic, Busi, Suarez, Pique. Regardless of their actual current abilities, and you will get a simple answer again.

    3. so, we had: survival instincts, egos and tribes/majority as reasons 1 and 2 (for fighting) on my list.
    Imo, other reasons: majority of people are angry or not satisfied by some parts of their real lives.
    And internet, and unknown people are a perfect place to vent their anger and frustrations.

    4. No4: a lot of guys are very emotionally attached to Barca from various reasons.
    Now, if someone is very, very attached to Barca and if Barca is a huge factor in his happiness in life, then a No2 kicks in again, a part with: we need young talents who will give us hope for the future.
    The more someone is attached to Barca and the more Barca's success impacts his life and happiness, imo, the higher are the chances that a person will be desperate for "a future hope" and for "objective" reasons/proofs that a future will be bright.
    That again mostly means=borderline obsession and a total lack of objectivity towards any young players.
    Young players are a sacred cows in that case and ANY bad post or questioning of their abilities are the biggest sin, since that way you are crushing people's dreams.
    For example, today, 3 pillars of dreams of majority of Barca's fans are: 1. Frenkie 2. Arthur 3. Fati
    The more people are attached to a player, the harder it is to even mention a flaw of a player.
    For example, I dare someone to post something bad in Frenkie's topic, even objective things: for example, that he is also quite meh in the attacking third.
    Regarding Fati, my first thought when I checked his age and stats was: what if he also cheated on his age, like majority of players from his part of Africa, where cheating is well documented, in order for players to secure good deals (who are usually extremely poor and desperate). We even had our own Etoo and a club also knowingly cheated for years on his age. If a player is older than his official age=if he turns great for us=fine. If he won't turn good for us=we will milk more money from a potential buyer due to to a buyer believing that a player is younger than he is.
    I mean, a question like this is perfectly logical, since it happened 100s of times. But if we dig deeper into it, people will get revolted, they will call you names and get angry.
    Why?
    If I ask this question, I won't actually make Fati 16 or 18. I can't change the reality. He is either 16 or 18. We don't know. I have just asked a legit question.
    The answer is=with questions like this, we are crushing people's dreams and their picture of a certain player in their head.
    And currently that picture is=Fati is really 16 and he will become a beast. He will be one of our best players and with him one day, we will again be on a top of Europe.
    In that state of mind, a life is much simpler and happier for majority. And the future looks good.
    A simple test, for any fan reading this post about Fati. Honestly, how do you feel in this moment, even if you only slightly consider a thought than Fati might be actually 18 and that he is way weaker talent than he is, and that Barca's future is thus way less shiny than if he is 16?
    You (fans) will get angry and sad and you will hope that this possibility is not true.
    Also, some people will immediately get angry at me for writing this.
    But then, a serious question: Do I have anything to do with Fati's real age?
    Or have I just asked an objective question?
    The same applies for posts: Dembele is dumb. Samper will never be a good player etc.
    Every single time, we go through a same process.
    When I said 2 years ago that Dembele is dumb, I didn't actually lie. Also, I didn't make him dumb.
    Dembele was always dumb. I was just the first or among the first who asked that question.
    And people acted for 2 years as if I AM THE ENEMY. Lol.
    In reality, what happened?
    = Dembele was a key factor in heads of our fans as a leader of our future successful project.
    In heads of people, Dembele was a generational talent, better than Mbappe.
    Regardless of whether that is true, people will always opt for that option. They will always lean towards a positive side and overhyping our (young) players.
    Why=again, because that gives them HOPE for a better future. And without hope, what is the point in watching Barca? we are bunch of losers, supporting a losing club who doesn't have any future. And that goes against our survival and winning instincts where we always want to be winners and do (or cheer) for things which are good, winning and worth cheering for. If Dembele is dumb and Fati is 18, we are going against our DNA because we are supporting losers.

    And then, in the case of Dembele, people needed to solve an internal process in their heads where they needed to accept that Dembele is not that good, that he won't be our leader and that our future is less bright.
    But, a human brain usually has a simple solution for these situations=if one object of dreams fails, a brain will quickly just move attention to the next object who has some potential.
    So, Dembele failed, and people's brains and hearts quickly replaced him with Fati. And currently our 3 biggest hopes are: Frenkie, Arthur and Fati.
    That again means that a biggest sin is daring to post some flaws of these players.

    5. and then, imo, the last reason for fights all the time is=too much of our success in the last 10-15 years.
    People are spoiled, entitled and are expecting too much.
    Especially younger fans who started to follow Barca around Pep's and Messi's era and they are used to that=winning everything and playing the most beautiful in the world=is a normal thing for Barca.

    For me, the funniest thing about fighting is this mob/tribes thing.
    What happened last night is a perfect example:
    1. I was often accused in the past for cherrypicking stats (aka: posting only stats which suit my love/hate agenda towards a certain player to make him look better or worse).
    2. then a lot of users have called me that I am not posting ALL stats, but only stats which suit me (DonAk and DonAndres have called me often)
    3. now add into maths that DonAk and DonAndres are a part of the same "tribe" among Barca's fans since they share similar football views.
    4. now, DonAndres posted equally shit stats regarding Rakitic (lol, comparing his defensive stats with Busi who is a pivot, in order to prove how Raki was never actually a good defender. Yet, of course that a pivot Busi will have better defensive stats than any CM because he plays deeper and is involved in defending all the time. Similarly, of course that Lenglet or a fullback will always have better defensive stats than any CM, no matter how good a CM in defending, and even if a CB is very bad).
    5. so, regarding DonAndres, isn't it a hypocrisy to call someone a fraud (me) for cheryypicking stats, and then doing exactly the same or even dumber thing?
    6. even worse, when I pointed to that, DonAk came and defended DonAndres with saying: you did the same, lol.
    Ok, fine. I have did the same, and I was called for it. Now the same users who have called me are doing a similar thing.
    Someone might simplify this and say: this is about different footballing views.
    But for users who are looking at a bigger picture, this is a perfect example of a human nature, survival and getting into tribes to "win against the enemies".
    No matter what level of shit will DonAndres write, users like DonAk, Messi2140, KingLeo, Villarubi and similar=won't say a word.
    Regardless if they agree or not. Why? Because they are in the same tribe. They will need help and support in the future.
    And then, each of them has 2 things to battle with:
    1) they can save the energy for a fight against EV's defenders (the enemy tribe)
    2) or they can fight with eachother (among their tribe) and then lose a support in bigger battle against EV's defenders.
    Now add that survival mode into maths: and a brain of each of those users will decide what is more important for them=it is to "kill" EV's defenders in this moment.
    In short=this is why some users will never attack eachother, and yet, they will jump on every single word of users from the "enemy camp".
    I won't be a hypocrite, and I will say that my DNA and my brain works the same.
    Since I am in this "battle" for years, an animal inside of me also knows that I can't fight alone with 20 or 50 enemies. I will lose eventually.
    So, I am surrounding myself, like any animal, with animals with similar ideas, to have more chances against the "enemy tribe" once when we will fight with them again.
    This is why, no matter what shit I wrote, users like Tackle, Arizona Scott (where is he lately btw?), Khaled, Messi983, Joan, Vlad, Ursegor, Tricky and similar, will almost never jump on me, even though they know that I am wrong.
    For the same reasons. I am "one of them" and why fighting with me over some mistake/shit in my post, when they (or we) will profit more if we'll stick together in a more important battle against "enemies" on our forum.
    The funny thing about a human nature is: people always stick together as long as they have an interest.
    So, theoretically, DonAk, DonAndres, Villarubi, KingLeo are "friends" in this moment, as long as they have a bigger enemy (us, EV's defenders).
    But if they would get rid of us (or if we would stop posting), then there wouldn't be 2 tribes anymore (against EV and for EV).
    Then, with no clear enemies in sight, an animal nature and an urge to be a leader and a winner would wake up in those guys and they would start a battle inside of their current tribe and they would create 2-3 smaller fractions (one tribe would call for one type of football, the other would call for different ideas etc), and then they would start to fight and insult eachother, the same as what is happening between us currently.
    Again, I won't lie. The same would happen in "my tribe". If only 10 of us would stay on a forum, even among us we would start a new battle for leadership of our tribe and we would create 2-3 fractions between us who would start to fight in order to get leadership.

    To be continued in the post below...
    FU Barto, FU the whole board, FU Abidal, FU Neymar. The end of Barca

  14. #11564
    Senior Member
    BBZ8800's Avatar
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    Part 2:

    Btw, I have said numerous times that I am on purpose testing people, our community and human brain and DNA often.
    Because it is free here. Plus, you can't be killed.
    I mean, this is an online forum, and some users from the "opponent tribe" have told me to commit a suicide, lol. Just because we disagree about Rakitic or Arthur.
    Imagine if I tried to go against a tribe in a political party or in some shady real life jobs/companies where a lot of money is involved.
    I would probably got killed quite fast.
    Principles are the same on Barcaforum, in a big money company and in a political party.
    So, guys, feel free to use this knowledge about how dirty is a human nature and avoid these mistakes in a real life where these things could be way more costly.

    Btw, I have tried similar tests on some other "safe" places.
    On one musical forum, about my favorite band, I have wrote a honest post how our favorite band has actually stolen a song (or a melody) from a song from another similar band (whom I also love).
    I am a musician in a free time so I can recognize those things easier than an average listener.
    Anyway, I was downvoted and insulted as equally as here when you write something bad about a young player, lol.
    So, an objective fact was that a band from that forum really DID steal a song.
    But, the same as here, fans didn't want to hear that. They rather pushed their heads into a sand and they wanted to continue with their dreamland idea that their band is not stealing, not copying anyone etc.
    Not to mention that fans there had similar overhyping ideas like our fans, for example: that band is the best band in the world (it isn't), everything what they do is a pure gold.
    What is funny, people there had their analogy of Pep, where certain albums from the past of the band are considered as the GOAT.
    And if some user said: I don't like that album... Then people (or a mob who created that opinion) would literally bully and made fun of that user and say: you don't know shit about music, fuck off from here.
    Sounds familiar?

    So, my point is: our behavior and these patterns are repeating everywhere.
    This is why I am making tests on people and communities because you can really learn 100s things about human and how to apply this knowledge in "more" important areas of life like family, money, girls or a REAL survival when you will need it.
    On a Caffe Catalonia part of a forum, you have my blogs and tests which I have been doing on girls for years, in order to recognize more patterns and to attract numerous girls per Month without any problems.
    Because as seen here, humans (and women regarding love and attraction) are quite predictable and somewhat easy to "manipulate" once when you understand our brains and behavior.

    Regarding our forum, I am posting for years, but lately, I came to a conclusion: why bother? It is not worth it. Mostly due to our animal nature and these tribes.

    For example, if I will post that Arthur is bad at defending:
    1. if I will be wrong=I will get 200 insults
    2. but also, if I will be proven right over time=I will still get 200 insults till then, and in the end 2-3 guys will apologize, while others will just move to a new topic and repeat the same cycle of insults for the next 2 years.

    One more thing:
    Quote Originally Posted by Potroh View Post
    "FU Barto, FU the whole board, FU Abidal, FU Neymar. The end of Barca" - is it the real you or your present post represents what you are really thinking?
    Do you have dual personality? An angry and emotional one besides the analytic one? Which one is real? Both?
    Imo, we are ALL both.
    Each of us is BOTH a good person and an evil person.
    I don't like some guys here, but I don't think that any guys (even those who have insulted me 100s of times) =are generally bad guys.
    They are insulting me due to a battle for survival and egos, due to being in different tribes, due to too much love towards Barca and due to each of us have some baggage from real life.
    So, DonAk, DonAndres, Messi2140 or anyone=they are BOTH good guys and guys who are doing some shitty things sometimes.
    Me too. In majority of times I am a good guy. In some moments I am stirring shit either due to some real life disappointments, or due to me making tests and trying to sometimes provoke people on purpose in order to learn more about a human nature.
    The only difference is: someone is good/nice for 99% of times, someone is good for 90% of times, someone is good only for 50%.
    But this can change over years, due to your current real life situation etc.

    Also, imo, we are both emotional and impulsive.
    The difference is that some will lose their calmness once in 10 fights, while someone else will lose their calmness all the time.
    For example, I usually don't offend people, even though I am insulted all the time, yet yesterday I have attacked DonAk with a clown reply, because I also had enough of repeated, hypocritical tribal-based shit.
    But no one is calm in 100 out of 100 cases.
    And no one loses heads in 100 out of 100 cases.

    Also, your post made me thinking and I tried to think of: whether there are users here who are not driven by egos, tribes and personal real life problems, which lead them to arguing and poking other users all the time.
    Then I tried to list a majority of popular posters here (for example, you are also a normal person, you like to fight a lot and poke at users and stir some fights
    I could think only of that user: @snowy He never fights with anyone, he is not in tribes, he is not egoistical. He is always about fun, some Youtube videos and friendship.
    User @FCBarca (iirc) is also not in tribes and is usually avoiding fights. Plus, his posts are rarely aimed at provoking and poking other users.
    Alik used to be among them 4-5 years ago, but lately he lost some calmness and started to poke from time to time.
    @El Flaco doesn't poke too much.
    And there are some users who don't post too much, they are usually less involved in fights, egos and tribes. Iirc rory, vinni, RichardH, I bleed Blaugrana etc
    90% of other posters who post a lot (me included) are driven by these animal urges and we are doing shit and fights here all the time.

    So, anyway, after analyzing this and similar communities for years, I came to a conclusion that it is almost not worth it to write UNLESS if you share similar beliefs to a majority.
    Or unless you are a masochist and enjoy being insulted 200 times per Month no matter what you do, lol.
    For 90% of topics on this forum, you can apply a similar formula:
    1. a mob/majority will choose an opinion by a certain player, and that will be heavily influenced by other factors like:
    1) whether a player fits a profile of a Joga Bonita football
    2) whether a player is young or old
    3) whether a player is from La Masia

    So, basically, if a player is a normal player and not in EXTREMES (being either extremely good or extremely shit), then let's say that he is inbetween extremes.
    Examples: Roberto, Semedo, Pique, Lenglet, Suarez, Arthur, Malcom etc.
    These players are BOTH good and bad in a lot of areas.
    In cases like these, a mob will decide and force an opinion about a player (which will again be influenced by being from La Masia, being old/young, practicing an eye pleasing football or not).
    And then you get:
    Puig=good
    Alena=good
    Malcom=good
    Dembele=good for years
    Wague, Oriol, Firpo, Todibo=all young and good

    On the other hand, you have: older or older and players who don't suit "beautiful play" style like Suarez, Pique, Raki, now Busi, soon Alba etc.
    = mostly not good and the coach should bench them and give more playing time to=guess whom=to all younger players, even though majority of them are a total crap.
    Then, the only way for a player to get a general agreement is: either if he is a extremely good like Messi or Frenkie.
    Or if he turns to a total shit like Denis, Gomes, Arda, now Dembele due to his IQ.

    In short:
    1. there will be agreement only about extremely good or extremely bad players
    2. for all other players in between, the mob will decide the popular opinion (which, as said, will be mostly influenced by beautiful play, age and being from La Masia) and if you don't agree, there is no too much help.

    So, regarding me and saying that I will post less, that is due to these facts from above: why bother?
    As seen on Dembele's example and about him having a low IQ, having horrible short passes, being a bad fit and having a weird (somewhat lazy for a professional) personality, it took two years of insults to finally prove something.
    The majority/the mob decided to change the opinion ONLY when Dembele reached extremely horrible levels of display.
    If he weren't THIS bad, we would probably have to go in circles for 2-3 more years about him: how he needs more time, how he needs one injury free season, how EV is hindering his development, how he can't play in our horrible system.
    And then, seriously, what is the point in going in circles and debating and fighting over some players, EV, leadership, motivation, some physique.
    We know eachother's opinions and it is better to write a post here and there than fighting over some topics in circles every day, and yet neither side will change their opinion, UNLESS if a player turns into extremely good or extremely bad, which will rarely happen.

    These aren't forums.
    These are places where a certain popular opinion exists.
    If you agree with those opinions, come here and enjoy a good time.
    If you share different beliefs, you will eventually exhaust all your masochist energy levels and stop posting like Arizona, Joan, Tricky and probably majority of us who are against popular beliefs.

    Anyway, kisses and hugs, as always
    FU Barto, FU the whole board, FU Abidal, FU Neymar. The end of Barca

  15. #11565
    Senior Member
    Ernesto GOATverde Tejedor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    ** Warning: this post contains 23 800 characters, so I had to split it in two posts

    Part 1:
    I have said a few times that there are tons of things to learn even from on online community which can help you in all other aspects of life.
    I had suspicions in the past that a person more or less can't fight against the majority/mob in any area of life.
    Or that it is very rare with a successful outcome.
    And it is confirming here.

    I am posting less often lately and I will probably post less, because when you sum it all, it is not worth it.
    Here is why:
    For a rookie reader, it may seem that all fights (not me, but from any users) are more or less about football.
    But when you dig a little deeper, one can understand that football is probably only 50% of fighting here.

    User @Potroh and some others asked lately why is there so much negativity in any topic in recent Months.
    Imo, there are 5 main reasons:
    1. a human nature. We are as individuals wired and created to SURVIVE and to win.
    Life and everything in it is a battle. Our genes are forcing us to be "winners" in everything what we do in life.
    That means: try to survive, try to not get hit by a car today (or eaten by a bear in the past), try to make more money than people around you, try to get the best girlfriend possible etc.
    Similar rules could apply here: try to know as much as possible about football. Try to be the best in judgements of players, coaches, tactics, club's future, everything regarding football.

    And on a football level, then you get a pissing contest: Roberto is good. Roberto is not. You are an idiot, Roberto is good. No, you are an idiot, Roberto is not good.
    The same happens in every single topic.
    So, individuals, survival instincts and egos are a reason no1 for fighting. We can't escape those.

    2. no 2 is, as I have wrote yesterday: our animal urges to get into tribes.
    Since again: a life is a survival battle. Everyone fights for himself, but it is easier to survive battles and escape from enemies if you surround yourself with more people (especially if you share some bond, like being a family or having a similar beliefs/ideas).
    In the early days of humans, if you were attacked by a bear or by another tribe, was it easier to fight with a bear on your own or helped by 20 guys from your tribe?
    Or, if another tribe has attacked you, was it easier to fight against them in 1 vs 20 or with a help from your friends in 20 vs 20?
    That urge (to get into tribes) is also coded in our DNA as a part of those survival instincts (and how to escape death and problems more easily).
    On a Barca forum, this part of a human nature is showing all the time.
    A general idea of a majority of Barca's fans are:
    1) we play beautiful football and we should always play that way
    2) Pep is a God on Earth, no one has ever played better and we should aim to copy everything what he did till the end of a universe (a type of light players, a type of a system, tactics, passes, everything).
    3) then there is a strong urge in people to have something to look for the in the future, which in this case means: people want to see young players so that they will have something to look for. If there is no young players and young hopes, people are sad and their dreams for a better future are crushed.
    From this area we have an obsession about any semi decent La Masia kid or a huge bias towards all young players whom we signed and a lot of hate towards players who are past their 30s.
    Why? Because people see young players as an opportunity to have a bright future.
    While older players are almost done, and even if they are still good, people don't see them in longterm (dreamy) plans and so they want to get rid of them quite soon. To make space for YOUNG La Masia players and YOUNG players bought.
    Of course, an objective quality of a young player is not too important here, because people will offer their dreamy alibies: he is young and has potential.
    If a player has flaws: he will fix them, he is young.
    Now insert young players like Puig, Alena, Oriol, Fati, Wague, Todibo and the bias is quite obvious, regardless of their actual footballing quality.
    Majority of fans share the same views: young guys are good. Older guys are bad.
    Now insert older players: Rakitic, Busi, Suarez, Pique. Regardless of their actual current abilities, and you will get a simple answer again.

    3. so, we had: survival instincts, egos and tribes/majority as reasons 1 and 2 (for fighting) on my list.
    Imo, other reasons: majority of people are angry or not satisfied by some parts of their real lives.
    And internet, and unknown people are a perfect place to vent their anger and frustrations.

    4. No4: a lot of guys are very emotionally attached to Barca from various reasons.
    Now, if someone is very, very attached to Barca and if Barca is a huge factor in his happiness in life, then a No2 kicks in again, a part with: we need young talents who will give us hope for the future.
    The more someone is attached to Barca and the more Barca's success impacts his life and happiness, imo, the higher are the chances that a person will be desperate for "a future hope" and for "objective" reasons/proofs that a future will be bright.
    That again mostly means=borderline obsession and a total lack of objectivity towards any young players.
    Young players are a sacred cows in that case and ANY bad post or questioning of their abilities are the biggest sin, since that way you are crushing people's dreams.
    For example, today, 3 pillars of dreams of majority of Barca's fans are: 1. Frenkie 2. Arthur 3. Fati
    The more people are attached to a player, the harder it is to even mention a flaw of a player.
    For example, I dare someone to post something bad in Frenkie's topic, even objective things: for example, that he is also quite meh in the attacking third.
    Regarding Fati, my first thought when I checked his age and stats was: what if he also cheated on his age, like majority of players from his part of Africa, where cheating is well documented, in order for players to secure good deals (who are usually extremely poor and desperate). We even had our own Etoo and a club also knowingly cheated for years on his age. If a player is older than his official age=if he turns great for us=fine. If he won't turn good for us=we will milk more money from a potential buyer due to to a buyer believing that a player is younger than he is.
    I mean, a question like this is perfectly logical, since it happened 100s of times. But if we dig deeper into it, people will get revolted, they will call you names and get angry.
    Why?
    If I ask this question, I won't actually make Fati 16 or 18. I can't change the reality. He is either 16 or 18. We don't know. I have just asked a legit question.
    The answer is=with questions like this, we are crushing people's dreams and their picture of a certain player in their head.
    And currently that picture is=Fati is really 16 and he will become a beast. He will be one of our best players and with him one day, we will again be on a top of Europe.
    In that state of mind, a life is much simpler and happier for majority. And the future looks good.
    A simple test, for any fan reading this post about Fati. Honestly, how do you feel in this moment, even if you only slightly consider a thought than Fati might be actually 18 and that he is way weaker talent than he is, and that Barca's future is thus way less shiny than if he is 16?
    You (fans) will get angry and sad and you will hope that this possibility is not true.
    Also, some people will immediately get angry at me for writing this.
    But then, a serious question: Do I have anything to do with Fati's real age?
    Or have I just asked an objective question?
    The same applies for posts: Dembele is dumb. Samper will never be a good player etc.
    Every single time, we go through a same process.
    When I said 2 years ago that Dembele is dumb, I didn't actually lie. Also, I didn't make him dumb.
    Dembele was always dumb. I was just the first or among the first who asked that question.
    And people acted for 2 years as if I AM THE ENEMY. Lol.
    In reality, what happened?
    = Dembele was a key factor in heads of our fans as a leader of our future successful project.
    In heads of people, Dembele was a generational talent, better than Mbappe.
    Regardless of whether that is true, people will always opt for that option. They will always lean towards a positive side and overhyping our (young) players.
    Why=again, because that gives them HOPE for a better future. And without hope, what is the point in watching Barca? we are bunch of losers, supporting a losing club who doesn't have any future. And that goes against our survival and winning instincts where we always want to be winners and do (or cheer) for things which are good, winning and worth cheering for. If Dembele is dumb and Fati is 18, we are going against our DNA because we are supporting losers.

    And then, in the case of Dembele, people needed to solve an internal process in their heads where they needed to accept that Dembele is not that good, that he won't be our leader and that our future is less bright.
    But, a human brain usually has a simple solution for these situations=if one object of dreams fails, a brain will quickly just move attention to the next object who has some potential.
    So, Dembele failed, and people's brains and hearts quickly replaced him with Fati. And currently our 3 biggest hopes are: Frenkie, Arthur and Fati.
    That again means that a biggest sin is daring to post some flaws of these players.

    5. and then, imo, the last reason for fights all the time is=too much of our success in the last 10-15 years.
    People are spoiled, entitled and are expecting too much.
    Especially younger fans who started to follow Barca around Pep's and Messi's era and they are used to that=winning everything and playing the most beautiful in the world=is a normal thing for Barca.

    For me, the funniest thing about fighting is this mob/tribes thing.
    What happened last night is a perfect example:
    1. I was often accused in the past for cherrypicking stats (aka: posting only stats which suit my love/hate agenda towards a certain player to make him look better or worse).
    2. then a lot of users have called me that I am not posting ALL stats, but only stats which suit me (DonAk and DonAndres have called me often)
    3. now add into maths that DonAk and DonAndres are a part of the same "tribe" among Barca's fans since they share similar football views.
    4. now, DonAndres posted equally shit stats regarding Rakitic (lol, comparing his defensive stats with Busi who is a pivot, in order to prove how Raki was never actually a good defender. Yet, of course that a pivot Busi will have better defensive stats than any CM because he plays deeper and is involved in defending all the time. Similarly, of course that Lenglet or a fullback will always have better defensive stats than any CM, no matter how good a CM in defending, and even if a CB is very bad).
    5. so, regarding DonAndres, isn't it a hypocrisy to call someone a fraud (me) for cheryypicking stats, and then doing exactly the same or even dumber thing?
    6. even worse, when I pointed to that, DonAk came and defended DonAndres with saying: you did the same, lol.
    Ok, fine. I have did the same, and I was called for it. Now the same users who have called me are doing a similar thing.
    Someone might simplify this and say: this is about different footballing views.
    But for users who are looking at a bigger picture, this is a perfect example of a human nature, survival and getting into tribes to "win against the enemies".
    No matter what level of shit will DonAndres write, users like DonAk, Messi2140, KingLeo, Villarubi and similar=won't say a word.
    Regardless if they agree or not. Why? Because they are in the same tribe. They will need help and support in the future.
    And then, each of them has 2 things to battle with:
    1) they can save the energy for a fight against EV's defenders (the enemy tribe)
    2) or they can fight with eachother (among their tribe) and then lose a support in bigger battle against EV's defenders.
    Now add that survival mode into maths: and a brain of each of those users will decide what is more important for them=it is to "kill" EV's defenders in this moment.
    In short=this is why some users will never attack eachother, and yet, they will jump on every single word of users from the "enemy camp".
    I won't be a hypocrite, and I will say that my DNA and my brain works the same.
    Since I am in this "battle" for years, an animal inside of me also knows that I can't fight alone with 20 or 50 enemies. I will lose eventually.
    So, I am surrounding myself, like any animal, with animals with similar ideas, to have more chances against the "enemy tribe" once when we will fight with them again.
    This is why, no matter what shit I wrote, users like Tackle, Arizona Scott (where is he lately btw?), Khaled, Messi983, Joan, Vlad, Ursegor, Tricky and similar, will almost never jump on me, even though they know that I am wrong.
    For the same reasons. I am "one of them" and why fighting with me over some mistake/shit in my post, when they (or we) will profit more if we'll stick together in a more important battle against "enemies" on our forum.
    The funny thing about a human nature is: people always stick together as long as they have an interest.
    So, theoretically, DonAk, DonAndres, Villarubi, KingLeo are "friends" in this moment, as long as they have a bigger enemy (us, EV's defenders).
    But if they would get rid of us (or if we would stop posting), then there wouldn't be 2 tribes anymore (against EV and for EV).
    Then, with no clear enemies in sight, an animal nature and an urge to be a leader and a winner would wake up in those guys and they would start a battle inside of their current tribe and they would create 2-3 smaller fractions (one tribe would call for one type of football, the other would call for different ideas etc), and then they would start to fight and insult eachother, the same as what is happening between us currently.
    Again, I won't lie. The same would happen in "my tribe". If only 10 of us would stay on a forum, even among us we would start a new battle for leadership of our tribe and we would create 2-3 fractions between us who would start to fight in order to get leadership.

    To be continued in the post below...
    Damn, you broke Barcaforum.
    "I don't care what Barcaforum thinks, for me it's Gala XI y nada mas." - Ernesto Valverde.

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