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Thread: 4 - Ivan Rakitić

  1. #9481
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    Thats pretty much how it looks like with both Rakitic and Busquetes on the field.
    Arthur has to be the link between midfield and Messi, Suarez, Coutinho, becouse Raki and Busi wont do that.
    He also have to be the linkup player with Alba on the left, becouse again, they dont do that.
    Messi has to do alot of midfield work aswell becouse Rakitic wont do anything there.

    And people complain that he doesnt move, when its shown over and over that he moves more than either of them.
    He does the least amount of backpasses of all our midfielders despite our attackers providing nothing for him to pass to.

    I hope FDJ will provide much more in playmaking.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YodaMaster View Post
    Oh btw here are FDJ's numbers in the meantime against a far superior opponent in Juve (since stats fans like BBZ love to compare players numbers in different games):

    Successful tackles: 6.
    Interceptions: 3.
    Key passes: 2.

    That's 'schoolboy' and 'light' 'no-thuggish' Frenkie De Jong for you folks.
    If rakitic was playing in that joke legaue like eredivision is, he would have plenty of energy for cl matches, instead he is getting overplayed match by match. While de jong is great talent, its quite different playing at barca then at ajax, lets wait to see him here, and then we can say if he is outperforming rakitic
    Last edited by vlad; 11th April 2019 at 05:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by YodaMaster View Post
    The ultimate fraud in CL knockouts. Never saw a weaker long term CM starter in Barca shirt in my life.




    A quick reminder of 'great workhorse' Rakitic' defensive numbers in CL knockouts.


    And now we can add 2019 QF vs Manchester United:

    Busquets. T:2. I:2.
    Arthur. T:1. I:0.

    Rakitic. T:0. I:0.

    Fraudkitic is systematically the most useless midfielder in each knockout CL game. Where's the guy who's 'baby-sitting' Leo and other strikers according to some geniuses up here ?

    PS: before Ivan's stans come to bark at me and cry I reckon whole midfield was shit today. Arthur is far from being great since the injury. Busquets was bad, but once again Busquets has to play CM in a shit un-Barca-like team because of fraud Rakitic (and his boyfriend Valverde), while Busquets is a pure DM. Still Rakitic managed to be the shittiest once again.
    You are good in cherrypicking and twisting stats. I am proud, you are learning from the best (me), lol.

    Let's actually check all knockout matches from this season, for example.

    Rakitic, Man. Utd, away: 0 tackles, 0 interceptions, 1 clearances.
    Rakitic, Lyon home: 1 tackle, 1 interception, 2 clearances.
    Rakitic, Lyon away: 2 tackles, 3 interceptions, 0 clearances.

    Your secret romantic crush, a defensive machine and a new Xavi in an attacking area, Arthur has:
    Man Utd: 1 tackles, 0 interceptions, 0 clearances
    Lyon home: 1 tackle, 1 clear, 1 block

    So, Rakitic has:
    3 tackles
    4 interceptions
    3 clearances
    0 blocks

    Arthur:
    2 tackles
    0 interceptions
    1 clearance
    1 block

    Since Rakitic played more, we need to calculate these stats per minute:
    Rakitic 270 minutes, 10 defensive actions
    = 1 won ball each 27 minutes

    Arthur: 140 minutes, 4 defensive actions
    = 1 won ball each 35 minutes

    So, if Raki sucks and is beyond useless defensively, what to say about Arthur who has weaker defensive numbers than Raki in all competitions and in almost every single game, and in an attacking part:
    Goals: Rakitic 4, Arthur 0
    Assists: Rakitic 6, Arthur 1
    Forward passes: Arthur, the last forward attempt was around Christmas.

    You can hate Raki how much you want.
    But, sadly, I don't even need to try hard or twist Arthur's stats in this debate to prove a point...

  4. #9484
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    Quote Originally Posted by vlad View Post
    If rakitic was playing in that joke legaue like eredivision is, he would have plenty of energy for cl matches
    Uh why do PSG shit themselves in the CL since their league is also a Joke? Why did Juve struggle against Ajax with their joke league?

    But do keep making excuses for your dear blondie locks.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    You are good in cherrypicking and twisting stats. I am proud, you are learning from the best (me), lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    In some cases, I am not replying if a player whom I hated started to play well, so no pint in arguing currently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    What, the Man City Gabriel Jesus? One of the top10 strikers in the world today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeloBarca View Post
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    Thats pretty much how it looks like with both Rakitic and Busquetes on the field.
    Arthur has to be the link between midfield and Messi, Suarez, Coutinho, becouse Raki and Busi wont do that.
    He also have to be the linkup player with Alba on the left, becouse again, they dont do that.
    Messi has to do alot of midfield work aswell becouse Rakitic wont do anything there.

    And people complain that he doesnt move, when its shown over and over that he moves more than either of them.
    He does the least amount of backpasses of all our midfielders despite our attackers providing nothing for him to pass to.

    I hope FDJ will provide much more in playmaking.
    Just to put another spin on it, how is our defensive record in cup matches and league. I'll answer that, been one of the best two in the world this year.

    I do think slowness is an issue in the squad, particularly w/o Dembele and transitioning from defense to offense with numbers forward, but it is far from solely a Rakitic issue. He is just about one of 5 or 6 regulars whose pace is nowhere near the level of their skill. And again, our defensive record is great, have one trophy in the bag and as good as we could be positoned in CDR and CL tournaments while going for all 3.

    It wasn't his best match or our best match, not like he hasn't put in a lot of excellent shifts the last 2 months in big matches (Atletico just this weekend, Madrid x 3, Lyon 2nd leg Sevilla x 2) and Croatia also used him full on.

    Time for him (along with Busi, Alba, Suarez, Messi, Pique) to get league matches off so they got their best stuff for the elimination matches.

  6. #9486
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    You are good in cherrypicking and twisting stats. I am proud, you are learning from the best (me), lol.

    Let's actually check all knockout matches from this season, for example.

    Rakitic, Man. Utd, away: 0 tackles, 0 interceptions, 1 clearances.
    Rakitic, Lyon home: 1 tackle, 1 interception, 2 clearances.
    Rakitic, Lyon away: 2 tackles, 3 interceptions, 0 clearances.

    Your secret romantic crush, a defensive machine and a new Xavi in an attacking area, Arthur has:
    Man Utd: 1 tackles, 0 interceptions, 0 clearances
    Lyon home: 1 tackle, 1 clear, 1 block

    So, Rakitic has:
    3 tackles
    4 interceptions
    3 clearances
    0 blocks

    Arthur:
    2 tackles
    0 interceptions
    1 clearance
    1 block

    Since Rakitic played more, we need to calculate these stats per minute:
    Rakitic 270 minutes, 10 defensive actions
    = 1 won ball each 27 minutes

    Arthur: 140 minutes, 4 defensive actions
    = 1 won ball each 35 minutes

    So, if Raki sucks and is beyond useless defensively, what to say about Arthur who has weaker defensive numbers than Raki in all competitions and in almost every single game, and in an attacking part:
    Goals: Rakitic 4, Arthur 0
    Assists: Rakitic 6, Arthur 1
    Forward passes: Arthur, the last forward attempt was around Christmas.

    You can hate Raki how much you want.
    But, sadly, I don't even need to try hard or twist Arthur's stats in this debate to prove a point...
    Eye test makes it look different. Arthur can hold the ball, while Raki can't. Arthur can relieve pressure, while Rakitic can't. Those are two massive things for a Barca player. Keeping possession. That's Arthur's best quality..

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    Quote Originally Posted by FinBarcelonafan View Post
    Eye test makes it look different. Arthur can hold the ball, while Raki can't. Arthur can relieve pressure, while Rakitic can't. Those are two massive things for a Barca player. Keeping possession. That's Arthur's best quality..
    You need everything.
    2 Arthur's without 1-2 Rakitic to cover for his back, wouldn't win anything in a CL.
    The same, 2 Rakitics alone without someone to hold the ball, wouldn't do too much.

    Anyway, let's see how Pep's Barca's DNA tactics will again end this season in a CL, compared to EV's ugly Barca.

    Anyway, it is interesting how people on our forum see matches quite different from neutrals.

    For example, ratings from yesterday for our 3 midfielders:
    Sport:
    Rakitic (7) Solved problems in midfield. Worked hard to cover ground and didn't let Pogba get into any rhythm. His efforts in defence impeded his effectiveness in attack.
    Arthur (6) More of a battling performance than a creative one due to United's pressing. Came off early in the second half.
    Busquets (5) Gave away some dangerous free kicks and was deservedly booked. Could even have been sent off in the first half. His passing improved after the break.

    The Guardian:
    Rakitic 6: Had a quiet opening half though one smooth acceleration into United’s territory showed his class.
    Arthur 6: Brazilian had McTominay for company as part of a midfield which Messi joined at times.
    Busquets 4: Dropped McTominay for early free-kick, booked for pulling back Pogba. Niggling fouls continued.

    Independent:
    Rakitic 7
    Arthur 6
    Busquets 6

    SkySports:
    Rakitic 7: Classy. Kept things ticking over in midfield.
    Arthur 6: Moved the ball stylishly down Barcelona's left with Philippe Coutinho and Alba without ever having a major influence on the game.
    Busquets 6: Constantly fouling in the first half and was perhaps lucky not to pick up a second booking for three fouls that looked yellow card worthy.

    Daily Mail:
    Rakitic 6: Started well on his 100th appearance in Europe but faded a little after that.
    Arthur 5,5: Industrious if unspectacular display form the Brazilian and he was replaced by Sergio Roberto.
    Busquets 5,5: Floored McTominay early on and trod a fine line after being booked for another foul on Pogba.

    Mirror:
    Busquets 8 - MOTM. Booked. Unlocked United’s defence for the opener and was class.
    Rakitic 6 - Pulled the strings in the midfield for Barca with his passing.
    Arthur 6 - Was neat and tidy in possession before fading in the second half.

    Express:
    Rakitic – 6: An understated display, with Rakitic helping keep the Barca attacking probing away. Coped better than his midfield counterparts with the press and kept Paul Pogba quiet for much of the night.
    Busquets - 5: An inconsistent performance from the Spaniard, who looked out-of-sorts as he was caught dithering time and again. Went in the book early for a foul on Scott McTominay and was lucky not to receive his marching orders after a handball.
    Arthur - 5: Showed glimpses of his quality but was exposed at times after the break as the game broke up.

    INews:
    Rakitic 6,5: Carried the ball quite well at times, but struggled along with the rest of Barcelona’s midfield to deal with some periods of incessant pressure from Man United. Asked to dig in and do more work off the ball in a tough second half.
    Arthur 6: Always an option in midfield as Barcelona looked to dominate proceedings early on, but wasn’t able to play many scything balls forward. Began to struggle as the game progressed, as the home side gradually found their feet and began to ask bigger questions. Didn’t like close attention from McTominay and let the referee know about it.
    Busquets 4: Lucky to escape a booking after a very poor tackle after five minutes – but received a yellow for hauling down Pogba cynically just after the 15-minute mark. Found life at Old Trafford tough, as he was often exposed as the deepest midfielder and pressured heavily by Man United’s midfield. An evening to forget for the talented Spain international.

    Sport 360:
    Rakitic 7: Measured presence in midfield, doing nothing flashy but everything proficiently.
    Arthur 6: Not at his brilliant best, yet still exuded class and provided shield in front of defence.
    Busquets 5: Could have received two bookings in first 20 minutes. Recovered from suspect start.

    90min:
    Arthur 7
    Rakitic 6
    Busquets 6

    Standard:
    Rakitic 6
    Arthur 6
    Busquets 6

    Sports Joe:
    Busquets - 7.5 Busquets' ball over the top of United's defence started the move that led to his team's goal and he barely hit a stray pass all night.
    Rakitic - 7 Full of energy and he hardly ever lost the ball, the Croatian midfielder also coped well with United's physical approach.
    Arthur - 6.5 Neat in possession but faded from the game in the second half before being substituted.

    Squawka:
    Rakitic 6: Didn’t find the room to join attacks often enough. His crucial contribution came in the final 10 minutes when his coolness on the ball calmed things down for the visitors.
    Arthur 6: The calmest central player in a sometimes frantic midfield battle in the first half but Valverde noticed he was being slightly overrun after the break and took him off with 25 minutes to go.
    Busquets 5: Caught out defensively three times in the first half and was arguably lucky to avoid two yellow cards. Not his usual cool self in possession but it was his clever pass that initially led to the opener.

    TOTAL:
    Rakitic 83,5/13=6,4 rating
    Arthur 78/13=6,0 rating
    Busquets 73/13=5,6 rating

    Anyway, I am seeing this pattern lately.
    I came to a forum or on chat and majority will say: Arthur was the only good midfielder, others were shit.
    Or Rakitic is a waste of space, what is he even doing on a field?
    While, when you go outside of Barca's forum, opinions are quite different.

    Out of these 13 papers, only 1 rated Arthur higher than Rakitic yesterday.
    There are few possibilities why our forum's opinion is different than neutral opinions:
    1. neutrals don't understand football as good as posters on Barca forum. I doubt it.
    2. or neutrals are weighing skills and flaws differently than our forum. And here, a huge bias is on technique and keeping a ball and other things are often overlooked. (I mean, the winning midfield trio for the next season on a recent poll was: Busi-Arthur-Frenkie, with a lot of people suggesting: sell both Rakitic and Vidal and make more room for Alena and Puig, lol).

    Also, another interesting thing.
    Neutral reports after Barca:Atletico confirmed that a lot of neutrals think that Arthur plays too safe and without risks.
    Now, after a match against Man Utd, a lot of these papers from above are mentioning how Arthur was overrun in midfield in the 2nd half and was rightfully replaced with players with fresher legs.
    So, neutral watchers think that Arthur plays too safe and that he was tired after 45 minutes.
    Barca forum watchers will say: Arthur is always the best midfielder in our team and a stupid EV is always subbing him off instead of Rakitic or Busquets.

    I will personally check from time to time neutral views because Barca forum is often not a too objective place with classical and predictable skills/players who will get the most love no matter what.
    Last edited by BBZ8800; 11th April 2019 at 08:36 AM.

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    Sports Joe: "Busquets - 7.5 Busquets' ball over the top of United's defence started the move that led to his team's goal and he barely hit a stray pass all night."

    Hahaha and this person got paid to write this?! He barely reached a teammate all night is more accurate.

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    Rakitic mr. no one today. Didn't notice him much, and when i did, he was bang average.

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    After stats its the turn of peddling ratings from those expert sports writers. Cos actually watching games and analyzing them is too much effort
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    You are good in cherrypicking and twisting stats. I am proud, you are learning from the best (me), lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    In some cases, I am not replying if a player whom I hated started to play well, so no pint in arguing currently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    What, the Man City Gabriel Jesus? One of the top10 strikers in the world today?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cule4life View Post
    After stats its the turn of peddling ratings from those expert sports writers. Cos actually watching games and analyzing them is too much effort
    You watched the game, I watched the game.

    You think that Arthur was good.
    I think that he was meh at best.
    You think that Arthur is not slow.
    I do think that he is slow.
    You think that he is not dead tired after 60 minutes.
    I do think so.

    What now?
    The eye test is a personal opinion influenced by personal tastes for specific players or type of players or influenced by a bias towards specific skills.

    Theoretically, if we would have played with 6 midfielders yesterday, even if they would all have played EXACTLY the same or EQUALLY as good or bad, I guess that 70-80% of posts would look this way:
    Rakitic, what is his purpose on a field?
    Vidal, a good energy but not Barca's level technically.
    Arthur, he was the best midfielder. He moved well and controlled the game well.
    Alena, one of the best on the field, together with Arthur. He tried offensive moves and offered some spark and energy.
    Puig, one of the best together with Arthur and Alena. Had some nice moves and passes. A pure class.

    That's because in the eyes of an average member, a nice touch or pass will always worth way more than a tackle, workrate etc.

  12. #9492
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    Snip
    Arthur was poor. I'm capable of criticizing my favs unlike your majesty.

    Tackle? workrate? When shown the fact that Rakitic hardly had any tackles you tried bringing in past stats.

    You defended Valgreen for the team's poor showing by the classic "but but results"

    Admit you are just incapable of criticizing your favs like Valgreen and Rakitic. It's amazing the amount of deflections and whataboutism you'll resort to, to avoid criticizing them.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    You are good in cherrypicking and twisting stats. I am proud, you are learning from the best (me), lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    In some cases, I am not replying if a player whom I hated started to play well, so no pint in arguing currently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    What, the Man City Gabriel Jesus? One of the top10 strikers in the world today?

  13. #9493
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    Quote Originally Posted by fergus90 View Post
    Sports Joe: "Busquets - 7.5 Busquets' ball over the top of United's defence started the move that led to his team's goal and he barely hit a stray pass all night."

    Hahaha and this person got paid to write this?! He barely reached a teammate all night is more accurate.
    That's why I posted 13 reviews.
    Some opinions will always be weird and extreme.
    But on a larger samples, you will get a more objective and neutral ratings.

    Btw. in these 13 reports, Busquets was rated as the best out of 3 midfielders only 2 times.
    While he was rated as the worst 5 times.
    5 times he was tied on the 2nd and 3rd place.
    And once all three players were rated as equal.

    So, out of 13 reports, 5 reports rated Busi as the worst and 5 rated him as tied on the 2nd and 3rd place.

    So, neutral ratings aren't that crazy in the end on larger samples, right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cule4life View Post

    Admit you are just incapable of criticizing your favs like Valgreen and Rakitic. It's amazing the amount of deflections and whataboutism you'll resort to, to avoid criticizing them.
    Again, this is mostly about Arthur vs Rakitic, right?

    So, Yoda posted defensive stats.
    While full stats say:
    Arthur:
    1 tackle
    0 interceptions
    0 clearances
    0 blocks

    Rakitic:
    0 tackles
    0 int
    1 clearance
    0 blocks

    So, 1 vs 1 in defensive actions.
    Plus, why picking a single match since over a season, Raki is better in every single defensive stat than Arthur.
    And even tonight, they were 1:1.

    I could post equally dumb stat from one match and ask?
    So, wait, Arthur had only 1 good defensive action.
    What about attack then?
    Then stats would say:
    Arthur:
    0 goals
    0 shots
    0 assists
    0 key passes
    0 dribbles

    So, both Rakitic and Arthur have 0, 0, 0 in attack and only 1 defensive contribution each.

    But Raki is a crap, invisible and a waste of space.
    Yet Arthur was the best midfielder in the world two months ago on this forum and an undisputed midfield starter in all possible combinations on this forum.

    A huge bias maybe?

    How can a best midfielder in the world constantly have equal or weaker BOTH attacking and defensive stats than a waste of space Raki?
    Something is off.
    Either Raki is nowhere near THAT bad.
    Or this forum is insanely overrating Arthur's displays.

    I checked the whole season's stats now:
    Per minute stats:
    Tackles: Raki wins
    Interceptions: Raki wins
    Clearances: Raki wins
    Blocks: Raki wins
    Goals: Raki wins
    Assists: Raki wins
    Shots per game: Raki wins
    Key passes: tied
    Dribbles: Raki wins
    Passing accuracy: 92:93,5% for Arthur
    Long balls: Raki wins
    Crosses: Raki wins
    Barcaforum's hearts: Arthur wins
    Last edited by BBZ8800; 11th April 2019 at 09:51 AM.

  15. #9495
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    snip
    Who said Arthur is the best MF in the world? Not me certainly.

    Whenever someone criticizes Rakitic instead of critiquing him you resort to "but but Arthur" and start peddling stats because he doesn't fit the ideal workhorse profile for you.

    It is possible for both Arthur and Rakitic to be bad.

    Only if you criticized Valgreen and Raki with even half of the same fervour with which you latch onto the shortcomings/mistakes of you non favourites like Arthur (whose thread you were absent from for very long when he was playing well )

    Admit it dude, you're massively biased/blinded by your workhorse/bus parking fetish. If you don't actually realize how biased you are i feel sad for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    You are good in cherrypicking and twisting stats. I am proud, you are learning from the best (me), lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by BBZ8800 View Post
    In some cases, I am not replying if a player whom I hated started to play well, so no pint in arguing currently.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wolfe View Post
    What, the Man City Gabriel Jesus? One of the top10 strikers in the world today?

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