10 - Lionel Messi - v3

footyfan said:

So more than half his goals are scored when Barca/Arg are leading. Would be interesting to see how that compares to other great goalscorers; Muller, Romario, Pele, Ronaldo, Cristiano Ronaldo. There has to be similar stats for atleast CR, if not R9.

This is the stat for statpadding.

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I don't have stats for past players but I have some for current players, well from Redcafe. I'll get them now.

I believe these stats are from the 2012/2013 season but as you can see it's not the full season. The sample size is quite small so keep that in mind. It appears that there is not much difference between most of the players with the exception of Van Persie on the high end and Lewandowski on the low end. Again the sample size is pretty small.




Here are some more just for England.



I would love a more comprehensive list but it would be a lot of work to do. A Messi Ronaldo list of the past 4 season would be great, maybe inlcuding a few other big names scorers during that period too.

Stats credited to 'Skills' on Redcafe.

Paganinisrvnge said:

Should definitely reach 30 goals 30 assists in all competitions if he keeps this up. Maybe even 40/40. That would be absolutely astonishing.

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People are really underestimating him. Last season he was poor by his standards, suffered injuries and Barca in general were poor and he still came away with 41 goals.

He'll get about 10 goals from free kicks and penalties which brings him up to 15. He'll get far more than another 15 from open play, especially if we trash the likes of Granada.

Mathieu: "Messi is a nice guy. I thought he wouldn't speak with players of less level than him, but he does! He's a nice guy"

Hahaha. Messi wouldn't speak to anyone, and be very lonely, if he were like that.

Flavia said:

Mathieu: "Messi is a nice guy. I thought he wouldn't speak with players of less level than him, but he does! He's a nice guy"

Hahaha. Messi wouldn't speak to anyone, and be very lonely, if he were like that.

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Messi gives his team mates false sense of security and then hits them on the counter like a true dictator would.

@Kerrybai: That's a pretty great table (albeit only for a big portion of 1 single season). If I'm being totally honest, I expected the difference between Messi and Ronaldo to be a bit higher (82% vs 75%). I think 2013/14, it would be even closer, Ronaldo might even lead that.

Van Persie's ratio is pretty crazy.

DonAK said:

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So great

1281 Pelle goals? Is that taking into account bbq matches that he played with his mates? If not then its 700 something and thats a number Messi will get very close to.

DonAK said:

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Ah yes the great myth of Pele's 1281 goals. I was just mentioning this in the Ronaldo thread. Pele has 767 offical, revised to 757. He then has 517 in friendly and benefit games. By the same criteria Gerd Muller has 1461 but he never claims to be number 1.

Here is the list for Messi to climb. http://www.rsssf.com/players/prolific.html#gmueller

footyfan said:

@Kerrybai: That's a pretty great table (albeit only for a big portion of 1 single season). If I'm being totally honest, I expected the difference between Messi and Ronaldo to be a bit higher (82% vs 75%). I think 2013/14, it would be even closer, Ronaldo might even lead that.

Van Persie's ratio is pretty crazy.




So great

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I'm very tempted to do my own research but it's so much work. Hm.

Ok so I ran through it, no idea if I did it right or not but from 2009/2010 to the most recent game I came out with the following.
% 1 head/draw level %2ahead/reduced deficit by 1 goal %first and second box
Messi -------------43.17 ------------------27.34-------------------------------70.51
Ronald0 ----------45.66 ------------------25.28-------------------------------70.94

If my calculations are right then it's not fair to call Ronaldo a stat padder unless the same is said about Leo.

Kerrybai said:

I'm very tempted to do my own research but it's so much work. Hm.

Ok so I ran through it, no idea if I did it right or not but from 2009/2010 to the most recent game I came out with the following.
% 1 head/draw level %2ahead/reduced deficit by 1 goal %first and second box
Messi -------------43.17 ------------------27.34-------------------------------70.51
Ronald0 ----------45.66 ------------------25.28-------------------------------70.94

If my calculations are right then it's not fair to call Ronaldo a stat padder unless the same is said about Leo.

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This is pretty great Kerrybai! Thank you.

So Ronaldo and Messi "stat-pad" the same amount. You can kind of expect those percentages to converge (which they did) simply because of the huge number of goals both of them score (there's not enough situations in each game to score an important goal especially for dominant teams like RM and Barca). So logically, I'm not entirely surprised but at the back of my mind I was still kind of expecting Messi to have more important goals. I think Ronaldo in 2009/10 and 2013/14 had a fair few clutch goals.

footyfan said:

This is pretty great Kerrybai! Thank you.

So Ronaldo and Messi "stat-pad" the same amount. You can kind of expect those percentages to converge (which they did) simply because of the huge number of goals both of them score (there's not enough situations in each game to score an important goal especially for dominant teams like RM and Barca). So logically, I'm not entirely surprised but at the back of my mind I was still kind of expecting Messi to have more important goals. I think Ronaldo in 2009/10 and 2013/14 had a fair few clutch goals.

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Yeah I found the convergence quite interesting. There are some clear differences between seasons but in the long run they both come out the same. I might go through by each competition some time and may also do one excluding penalties. They were so close that for the 3x multiplier Ronaldo leads 121-120. I don't have the figures perfect and missed a couple of goals here and there but they are amazingly close.

The variations between each season likely prove that a season is too small for a sample size.

2013/2014 Ronaldo had slightly more clutch goals, however percentage wise he was lower than Messi as he had a higher number of 'other goals.'

Messi's 73 goal season was his worst percentage wise.
----------------x3--------x2-------totalx3 and x2
Messi ------38.36------23.29----------61.65
Ronaldo 48.33--------25------------73.33

Almost identical numbers for the first 2 categories but Messi had nearly double the amount of 'other goals.' I reckon Messi and Ronaldo come out below most other top scorers as only Barca and Madrid regularly rack up several wins per season of 5-0, 6-1 etc which gives them a more opportunity to stat pad.

So....... What's on the menu tonight?

Messi = not good enough anymore

Or

Messi= OMFHGHFDAISDGAIDJAI GOAT, GOAT, LEGEND!!!!

Messi's fault then...

Only reason why I enjoyed the game. Superb game, IMO.

He was immense tonight. Close to his best.