What exactly does "Messi now" refer to though? Yesterday? This month? This season? This year?
What is the Reason for Messi's Recent Drop in Form?
- Thread starter Pepe Silvia
- Start date
Last season, he got injured in spring and was off after that. This season, he's been good, just had a few "bad games", some of which are due to coming back from yet another injury. Other games, he was plain brilliant, explosive, pressing a lot, scoring. I don't see any big problem there.
The Observer
New member
I don't think injuries are the reason for Messi's current dip in form. After all he isn't playing below his standards all season long. He has scored 8 goals in his first 7 games. So logically the injuries from last season shouldn't have any bearing on his current form. He should be over his injury from the Almeria game, too. He is training normally for almost 3 weeks and has played games against Osasuna, Milan, Madrid and Celta. He couldn't have been lacking match fitness against Espanyol. Maybe not 100 % Messi but still not the main reason why he only managed 1 shot on target against Espanyol.
No, there is something else. And if you pay attention you will notice that all recent games except Celta (where Messi was actually superb with lots of dribbles and key passes) had something in common. Milan, Madrid and Espanyol packed the middle and Tata in return put Messi on the right for the majority of those games. Under Tito but also in Pep's last season Barca's play had become extremely predictable. Messi would be in the center all the time, drop deep (very deep, too deep at times) to collect the ball, dribble 1 or 2 players, spread the ball to the wingers with a throughball, make a run into the box and wait for the return pass to score. This had become more and more the main attacking scheme of the team and because this was such an obvious and predictable setup ("feed Messi with the ball as much as possible"), most teams figured it out and the "big" teams with the proper players could defend it. If you pay attention to the PSG game last season you will see how even someone like Jallet, who is a horrible rightback normally, immediately anticipated the runs on his side and retreated whenever Messi had the ball in the center. Ancelotti had cleary told him that Messi would look to play throughballs in-behind him to start attacking moves.
What we're seeing now is simply less Messidependencia against packed defenses. The team isn't looking for Messi all the time. There is also Neymar now who can be fed with passes (Neymar had more touches than Messi last night) and a confident Alexis who isn't shy of getting into the box and pulling the trigger instead of looking for Messi. Not everything has to revolve around Messi. Put Neymar on the left and Messi on the right and the game will be automatically stretched and packing the middle becomes useless with the 2 most dangerous attackers coming from the wings. What was Ramos doing in the latest Clasico for example? He was like: "Where's Messi whom I was supposed to follow and kick around? Hello? No one there?! Ah, nevermind, meanwhile I'll elbow Neymar's face then."
Messi might take a while to get used to a role where he isn't the main fulcrum all the time who starts and finishes all the attacking moves. But for the good of the team this is really important.
So to make it short, I believe it is:
[x] No Longer Sole Point of Attack
Let's just hope Neymar doesn't release a biography next season which starts with the sentence: "Everything started rosy but then Messi started to talk." And hopefully Tata doesn't use SMS.
No, there is something else. And if you pay attention you will notice that all recent games except Celta (where Messi was actually superb with lots of dribbles and key passes) had something in common. Milan, Madrid and Espanyol packed the middle and Tata in return put Messi on the right for the majority of those games. Under Tito but also in Pep's last season Barca's play had become extremely predictable. Messi would be in the center all the time, drop deep (very deep, too deep at times) to collect the ball, dribble 1 or 2 players, spread the ball to the wingers with a throughball, make a run into the box and wait for the return pass to score. This had become more and more the main attacking scheme of the team and because this was such an obvious and predictable setup ("feed Messi with the ball as much as possible"), most teams figured it out and the "big" teams with the proper players could defend it. If you pay attention to the PSG game last season you will see how even someone like Jallet, who is a horrible rightback normally, immediately anticipated the runs on his side and retreated whenever Messi had the ball in the center. Ancelotti had cleary told him that Messi would look to play throughballs in-behind him to start attacking moves.
What we're seeing now is simply less Messidependencia against packed defenses. The team isn't looking for Messi all the time. There is also Neymar now who can be fed with passes (Neymar had more touches than Messi last night) and a confident Alexis who isn't shy of getting into the box and pulling the trigger instead of looking for Messi. Not everything has to revolve around Messi. Put Neymar on the left and Messi on the right and the game will be automatically stretched and packing the middle becomes useless with the 2 most dangerous attackers coming from the wings. What was Ramos doing in the latest Clasico for example? He was like: "Where's Messi whom I was supposed to follow and kick around? Hello? No one there?! Ah, nevermind, meanwhile I'll elbow Neymar's face then."
Messi might take a while to get used to a role where he isn't the main fulcrum all the time who starts and finishes all the attacking moves. But for the good of the team this is really important.
So to make it short, I believe it is:
[x] No Longer Sole Point of Attack
Let's just hope Neymar doesn't release a biography next season which starts with the sentence: "Everything started rosy but then Messi started to talk." And hopefully Tata doesn't use SMS.
Luftstalag14
Culé de Celestial Empire
Footyfan, what I don't get is that how can Messi be a worse player (my words, I think you are too polite to spell it out, you called him "different") when stats (like those posted by jiopi, taken from whoscored) suggested otherwise? Are the stats deceiving, or is the drop in Messi's game, whatever it is, be it the explosiveness, speed etc. not reflected in the stats?
footyfan
Calma, calma
Which ties back to my first post on this thread...
Anyway, bar a few games, Messi was still a different player even before he got injured last season. He's becoming more and more a static pure striker. Not that I totally believe in assist stats, but they do sort of reflect that change. His assist stats dropped off from 28 to 16, a 43% drop. Our finishing was also better last season than the season before, if you consider how many chances were missed in 11/12 and how many more assists he could've had, the difference is even starker.
Can't know for sure, but i would like to point out a fact. Messi's role throught the time was seperated with the likes of Henry Eto'o, he didn't do everything himself. Same happened with Villa and Pedro in 2010-2011, so i can't believe so much that it could be for tactical reasons. But again i don't know if it's about him playing more wide. Against Madrid he didn't involve so much playing there, or yesterday playing in the right for most of game. I could think about that but i don't believe it, a little change couldn't affect his performances so much.
For me i would say it's just a bad day or probably something of an injury, in the early of the season he tried to press as well. Yesterday he didn't do much of it, but there's no 100 % answer that could tell us. We should wait a little bit more to see how he does in the next games.
For me i would say it's just a bad day or probably something of an injury, in the early of the season he tried to press as well. Yesterday he didn't do much of it, but there's no 100 % answer that could tell us. We should wait a little bit more to see how he does in the next games.
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I don't think injuries are the reason for Messi's current dip in form. After all he isn't playing below his standards all season long. He has scored 8 goals in his first 7 games. So logically the injuries from last season shouldn't have any bearing on his current form. He should be over his injury from the Almeria game, too. He is training normally for almost 3 weeks and has played games against Osasuna, Milan, Madrid and Celta. He couldn't have been lacking match fitness against Espanyol. Maybe not 100 % Messi but still not the main reason why he only managed 1 shot on target against Espanyol.
No, there is something else. And if you pay attention you will notice that all recent games except Celta (where Messi was actually superb with lots of dribbles and key passes) had something in common. Milan, Madrid and Espanyol packed the middle and Tata in return put Messi on the right for the majority of those games. Under Tito but also in Pep's last season Barca's play had become extremely predictable. Messi would be in the center all the time, drop deep (very deep, too deep at times) to collect the ball, dribble 1 or 2 players, spread the ball to the wingers with a throughball, make a run into the box and wait for the return pass to score. This had become more and more the main attacking scheme of the team and because this was such an obvious and predictable setup ("feed Messi with the ball as much as possible"), most teams figured it out and the "big" teams with the proper players could defend it. If you pay attention to the PSG game last season you will see how even someone like Jallet, who is a horrible rightback normally, immediately anticipated the runs on his side and retreated whenever Messi had the ball in the center. Ancelotti had cleary told him that Messi would look to play throughballs in-behind him to start attacking moves.
What we're seeing now is simply less Messidependencia against packed defenses. The team isn't looking for Messi all the time. There is also Neymar now who can be fed with passes (Neymar had more touches than Messi last night) and a confident Alexis who isn't shy of getting into the box and pulling the trigger instead of looking for Messi. Not everything has to revolve around Messi. Put Neymar on the left and Messi on the right and the game will be automatically stretched and packing the middle becomes useless with the 2 most dangerous attackers coming from the wings. What was Ramos doing in the latest Clasico for example? He was like: "Where's Messi whom I was supposed to follow and kick around? Hello? No one there?! Ah, nevermind, meanwhile I'll elbow Neymar's face then."
Messi might take a while to get used to a role where he isn't the main fulcrum all the time who starts and finishes all the attacking moves. But for the good of the team this is really important.
So to make it short, I believe it is:
[x] No Longer Sole Point of Attack
Let's just hope Neymar doesn't release a biography next season which starts with the sentence: "Everything started rosy but then Messi started to talk." And hopefully Tata doesn't use SMS.
Agreed on all points. Excellent post! :beer2:
But then, to be precise, the exact reason is "Not being used to no longer sole point of attack" and not the tactics (no longer sole point of attack) as such, if I understand you correctly. This would make it a temporary issue and solvable in a few games/weeks. Because otherwise, this would mean that Messi as such isn't as good player on the wing as he is as a false 9. Which I doubt considering he's been great on the wing before.
F
Flavia
Guest
I have to agree. He has been in and out of injuries since April. We're not used to it, but he's not back in full form yet.
He had a great game against Celta, just unlucky. Not the first time a gk denies him that many goals either. And last night he was quieter than usual, but there's a bit of overrreaction going on.
We need to wait and see.
The Observer
New member
Yes, "not used to" is probably more correct. Or simply put: The whole team has to adapt to new tactics and the automatisms aren't quite there yet. Iniesta is struggling as well because the midfield under Tata is supposed to release the ball quicker with more emphasis on wingplay and space instead of triangulations and possession in the middle. Messi not being good per se on the wing is nonsense of course and not what I meant.
Aryagorn
Improvin' Perfection!!
Shifting positions?
He won a Ballon d'Or once and came very close to winning another time playing in that position! He is more than used to the tactic too btw.
No Longer Sole Point of Attack/Sulking
That could be a reason... But he is maintaining a very good relationship with Neymar, the new star, so no that's not!
Overthinking Goal Drought/Mental fatigue
Having been through a very tough hurdle that his growth hormone deficiency was... I don't think a miniscule problem such as a goal drought could have any influence on him
Eyes on WC 2014/Pacing Himself
He won a Ballon d'Or once and came very close to winning another time playing in that position! He is more than used to the tactic too btw.
No Longer Sole Point of Attack/Sulking
That could be a reason... But he is maintaining a very good relationship with Neymar, the new star, so no that's not!
Overthinking Goal Drought/Mental fatigue
Having been through a very tough hurdle that his growth hormone deficiency was... I don't think a miniscule problem such as a goal drought could have any influence on him
Eyes on WC 2014/Pacing Himself
F
Flavia
Guest
Los partidos contra el Espanyol son siempre muy complicados. Físicamente todavía no estoy al 100 %, pero seguro que con el correr de los partidos iré agarrando ritmo.
(The games against Espanyol are always very complicated. Physically I'm still not 100%, but I'm sure that with game time I'll get back into rhytmn)
(The games against Espanyol are always very complicated. Physically I'm still not 100%, but I'm sure that with game time I'll get back into rhytmn)
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