Zinedine Zidane

Fati_Future_BallonDor said:

In 16/17 and 17/18 it was like every shot was a goal. So many beautiful outside from the box goals but since 18-19 we rarely see them.

Click to expand...

That was like a 2 week period in which we boinked Barca in Supercopa. Nothing massive.

He can still pull a trigger well and actually showed off the offball instincts in that 10-win stretch.

This is the first match of the season and lots can change with a packed schedule. Issue is I have no faith it will.

I don't think we're prepared to play with a 2 striker variant when we struggle to score and create. And we struggled for it in 95% of games since Ronaldo left.
I don't understand how we don't provided we're facing a possibility of having 4 strikers in the team.
Worse - I don't think Zidane is prepared to take Benzema off and is intent on protecting him from criticism and to preserve hierarchy. In any scenario. We'll play 4-3-3 and hope for the best or do the opposite and play some weird 3-5-2 with Casemiro dropping to CB as a panic measure to get a goal when we need one.
The prospect of Odegaard playing with a striker as slow as Benzema is saddening.

The adamant refusal and stubbornness to adapt and come up with an alternative formation and plan is downright infuriating. And it's not like we don't have players that can't play 3-5-2 or a diamond if necessary. It's nothing but our manager.

As long as your defense keeps clean sheets for fun you'll win enough games to pick up another title. Zidane is showing Simeone how it's done.

Viniscuis needs to step up for Zidane this season.

He has gone past the stage of being young with huge potential and needs to start delivering or things could go sour for him quite quickly.

Be interesting to compare him and Fati this season to see who develops more.

serghei said:

As long as your defense keeps clean sheets for fun you'll win enough games to pick up another title. Zidane is showing Simeone how it's done.

Click to expand...

Not good enough. It may be acceptable for one season to break the Barca run of titles, which is what was the aim last year, but there needs to be visible progress, visible change. Klopp emphasized as much in a statement upon signing Thiago - changes must happen to write a new chapter. With lack of transfers bar Odegaard, Zidane absolutely needs to change who it is he uses. Otherwise we'll be toast in CL R16 again.

If in a scenario like Sociedad at 0-0 with garbage chances he refuses to change system to 2 striker with FIVE SUBS available for this season, it's a huge red flag.

Wolfe said:

Not good enough. It may be acceptable for one season to break the Barca run of titles, which is what was the aim last year, but there needs to be visible progress, visible change. Klopp emphasized as much in a statement upon signing Thiago - changes must happen to write a new chapter. With lack of transfers bar Odegaard, Zidane absolutely needs to change who it is he uses. Otherwise we'll be toast in CL R16 again.

If in a scenario like Sociedad at 0-0 with garbage chances he refuses to change system to 2 striker with FIVE SUBS available for this season, it's a huge red flag.

Click to expand...

Not good enough for the ambitions of Madrid. It's the same at Barcelona. But in the grand scheme of things, it is normal for the big teams to take turns at dominating the field. You can't have too many successful teams at the same time.

Madrid and Barcelona will need to rebuild their teams, and it won't be easy.

Don't know what you mean.

Wolfe said:

Don't know what you mean.

Click to expand...

It means it's the others' turn at dominating. Namely, Bayern, Liverpool, possibly PSG. But out of the giants who currently have to do a rebuilding, and those are Madrid, Juventus, United, and Barcelona give or take, Madrid will probably be back the fastest. And I see them winning another CL faster than any of the other 3.

That much is obvious. That's not the point though. This team is able to compete, but needs to make subtle changes to keep moving forward and to keep showing they are designing a project. At the moment the project is 'we wait for Mbappe who will solve all of our goal problems and then we'll see'. Nothing new from the manager himself who adamantly refuses to have an alternative approach to the forward line and preferentially choosing Benzema over younger and faster players in situations that don't warrant it.

Here is his presser now
"We have a team, we have players, I have to choose. Next week we have another game. I have nothing against any player"
"We did not want to change shape of team. We could have changed the number nine, but I preferred to put on players on the wings."
""We lacked something today in the final third, but that's normal. Our idea remains the same, we want to repeat how we finished last year."
"Jovic hasn't disappointed me. We have a full team and I simply chose who to play. Casemiro didn't start the game, it's a one-off moment and nothing else. Odegaard had no discomfort in his knee. It's his first game and we'll take it slowly.""

---

In other words if he prefers 4-3-3 or systems with wingers, the only player who scores semi regularly is Benzema if fit and on form. Unless Asensio comes back and scores when fit, which is very much a maybe.
He is fostering the image of Benzema being faultless while also highlighting faults of less experienced and very young talent who will thereby always get singled out because "they're not up to Benzema standard". Which is useless. And if he chooses to bench Benzema and play Jović the narrative will be "what is going on here, Zidane going mad by taking off the best forward?". Nonsense. Circular argument.

This stubbornness will hurt him and hurt him bad.

Maybe he is not the man for the job. His success was to get the best results from a mature team, he is unproven at building a team.

He doesn't have to build a team. Nor is his intent in the past 2 years on doing so. He didn't come back to scrap 66% of the players and build anew, nor was the president able to OK such an endavour.

What he's doing is small changes in phasing out older core and in all but one case it works. It applies to everyone but one distinct player. And it's only that one player for whom there is no explanation as to why he's not being used less when not impactful. And if less impactful, impact needs to come from somewhere else. He cannot expect anywhere near the desired return from 20 year olds who barely sniffed European football, so we waited for Asensio and bought Hazard. They're not available tonight though. Which creates a problem because what's he supposed to do. Choice was either - force younger players to make improvement, or figure out an alternative formation to shift the dynamic which doesn't put wingers at centre of production.

He chooses to do the former.

Inexplicable.

Wolfe said:

He doesn't have to build a team. Nor is his intent in the past 2 years on doing so. He didn't come back to scrap 66% of the players and build anew, nor was the president able to OK such an endavour.

What he's doing is small changes in phasing out older core and in all but one case it works. It applies to everyone but one distinct player. And it's only that one player for whom there is no explanation as to why he's not being used less when not impactful. And if less impactful, impact needs to come from somewhere else. He cannot expect anywhere near the desired return from 20 year olds who barely sniffed European football, so we waited for Asensio and bought Hazard. They're not available tonight though. Which creates a problem because what's he supposed to do. Choice was either - force younger players to make improvement, or figure out an alternative formation to shift the dynamic which doesn't put wingers at centre of production.

He chooses to do the former.

Inexplicable.

Click to expand...

Can I interest you in Ernesto Valverde as a replacement. League master.

I would take Dembele if you wanna swap for Vazquez.

Wolfe said:

He doesn't have to build a team. Nor is his intent in the past 2 years on doing so. He didn't come back to scrap 66% of the players and build anew, nor was the president able to OK such an endavour.

What he's doing is small changes in phasing out older core and in all but one case it works. It applies to everyone but one distinct player. And it's only that one player for whom there is no explanation as to why he's not being used less when not impactful. And if less impactful, impact needs to come from somewhere else. He cannot expect anywhere near the desired return from 20 year olds who barely sniffed European football, so we waited for Asensio and bought Hazard. They're not available tonight though. Which creates a problem because what's he supposed to do. Choice was either - force younger players to make improvement, or figure out an alternative formation to shift the dynamic which doesn't put wingers at centre of production.

He chooses to do the former.

Inexplicable.

Click to expand...

I am not sure it has worked at all to be frank.
The fact that you won last LaLiga says something, but not that Zidane succeeded in phasing out and in players.
Rotations, which he does well, does not mean phasing in or out. You have to see what he does in big games and in 60% of other games.
If, apart from Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Casemiro, Carvahal, Varane, Ramos all play those games, he has not phased out players.
I will give him Fede Valverde and Mendy as the only two he has managed to phase in and Marcelo the only one he has managed to phase out (with question-marks if both of the former two have the quality to be long-term starters for Madrid)
But that's pretty much it...
Hazard plays when he is available, and Vinicius, Rodrygo are part of the rotational plugging of holes when others are injured or for the other 40% of games.

Ok, maybe my bias is talking now, but Zidane is not the man for the job (although I came to rate him a bit more after last season).
Look at how he lets (and has let in the past) reguilon, hakimi, kovasic and others go.
He is not comfortable with non-established players.

Fede case attests to the contrary of the last claim you made. It’s more just him being very picky about what he likes. Which is the problem with the rest of the fanbase as they clearly dismiss that ‘flaw’ of his when it comes to prioritising other players.

He has taken the task of phasing out players as the main one. If someone who used to play 3800 mins per season now plays 1800, he is being phased out. If they play less than that, even more so.

Defenders don’t need phasing out. Ramos might but it’s an impossible task, no one can replace him in one year with him still there. Casemiro doesn’t need phasing out. No need to focus on players who don’t need to go.
It’s the players who are net negative to how team performs. Right now this is Marcelo, in many cases Modrić and in many cases Benzema. Strike force operates well without him if experience is even and if they are not looked at as somebody who is resoundingly worse. Because it’s unfair to do that when Benzema doesn’t offer a lot on physical grounds anyway.

I expect Odegaard to be significant change this season as we are desperate for verticality. And then we’re desperate for players fast enough to make runs and win duels. Brazilian kids can do to some degree, but shouldn’t be expected to do that unless they themselves consciously want to be held to that standard. Asensio wanted to and got burnt. Thus it’s better off to play experienced wingers and a new striker if Zidane is adamant he prefers a 4-3-3 and won’t deviate from it.