Gerardo "Tata" Martino

DonAndres

Wild Man of Borneo
Idk, the squad conversation has flip flopped so hard all of the time that it can't be taken into account.

It's been said last year's squad was better when we were doing shit earlier this season. People now say that Rakitic gives us a big advantage but there was another perspective that last year's midfield had: a much less declined Iniesta in the business end of the season (truth), a less declined Xavi, Cesc who was 'better than Rakitic', etc. People say Lucho is lucky to have Pique, Messi, and Neymar in this form but in reality I'd say it is Lucho's setup that has gotten the best out of those three. Neymar wasn't scoring like this until he was moved to a more central-wide forward position, he was nowhere near as comfortable under Tata. Pique was good under Tata, started off this season shit off the back of a terrible individual WC, and then Lucho benched his ass and brought him back to prime level Pique performances through his man management. Can't even get started on Messi when Tata was a big factor in his worst season ever, even actively trying to minimize Messi's impact on the game while Lucho has got him back to *fingers crossed* his best ever level. Alves was a cancer to our team last year under Tata yet under Lucho he's reportedly the hardest trainer and in a role where he's amazing. Things like Alexis 13/14>>Suarez 14/15 have been said too. Who's to say that Lucho's squad of extremely high performing elite players isn't because he got them to be at that level and that Tata made them underwhelm? Or vice-versa if this had been about 1 month ago or possibly in the not-so predictable future?

You can't compare the managers based on their squads when the opinions of those squads have flip flopped over 43820948230 times, not to mention that the way they got the best out of their squads interferes with the idea that one is better than the other. I won't compare Lucho to Tata until the end of the season, when we see how Lucho can respond managerially to every single point in the timeline of a season. We haven't yet seen him in the knockouts of the CL or the 2nd Clasico leg. Our momentum is crazy good but it's source is a miraculously crazy turnaround that happened in the span of 1-2 games, who's to say that, god forbid, we don't relapse or collapse?
 

anguy

New member
No it does not give a good picture because it is just about one opponent that have a very special approach to the game.
And Simeone could only win 1 match out of 6 vs Tata. You could also put it that way.

Also don't forget Atletico are weaker team now. Curtois, Luis and Costa were all replaced by inferior players. Griezman was an upgrade, but that's pretty much it.
 

mssarm

Member
Also don't forget Atletico are weaker team now. Curtois, Luis and Costa were all replaced by inferior players. Griezman was an upgrade, but that's pretty much it.

ATM is not any weaker now. They lost last year to RM, this year they trashed them.
 

mssarm

Member
I really don't understand this "Tata the Great" thing. He did not invent anything new or introduced ground breaking tactical solution. He was riding the wave of Barca playing great for the 1st half of the season and then complete collapse in second half. Same thing happened under Tito- so what's the big deal about Tata? The only bright point probably was the classico wins, but let's not forget that Lucho beat RM with Celta Vigo team last year. Tata had very weak personality, lost the dressing room, couldn't motivate players(but had great BBQ sessions), player's individual performance levels went down, had no idea where to play Messi and finished the year without any trophy. Where's "the great coach" here?
 

KyletheMuslim

Guardiolista
I really don't understand this "Tata the Great" thing. He did not invent anything new or introduced ground breaking tactical solution. He was riding the wave of Barca playing great for the 1st half of the season and then complete collapse in second half. Same thing happened under Tito- so what's the big deal about Tata? The only bright point probably was the classico wins, but let's not forget that Lucho beat RM with Celta Vigo team last year. Tata had very weak personality, lost the dressing room, couldn't motivate players(but had great BBQ sessions), player's individual performance levels went down, had no idea where to play Messi and finished the year without any trophy. Where's "the great coach" here?

Yea because it's not like INJURIES AND SUSPENSIONS had anything to do with it. It's not like dressing room politics made it hard for him to implement his own style of play.
 

anguy

New member
In that case RM got weaker with the loss of Di maria and xabi which is more apparent in big games

Yes. Certainly Atletico were better last season, at least defensively. Luis and Curtois were big losses, especially Curtois. Oblak is joke.
 

anguy

New member
I really don't understand this "Tata the Great" thing. He did not invent anything new or introduced ground breaking tactical solution. He was riding the wave of Barca playing great for the 1st half of the season and then complete collapse in second half. Same thing happened under Tito- so what's the big deal about Tata? The only bright point probably was the classico wins, but let's not forget that Lucho beat RM with Celta Vigo team last year. Tata had very weak personality, lost the dressing room, couldn't motivate players(but had great BBQ sessions), player's individual performance levels went down, had no idea where to play Messi and finished the year without any trophy. Where's "the great coach" here?

Well, let's not forget he greatly improved Barca defense despite having just puyol as "new CB". Before him in last Guardiola year and under Villanova our defense was pretty weak. We basically always looked to outscore and outpossess our opponents. When it didn't work the things were not ... pretty (Bayern in CL). Also in offense and midfield our team was significantly reinforced since last year. Imagine if LE had to pay against Atletico with Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas in midfield this year.
 

Stric

New member
If Lucho wins trophies Lucho > Tata end of story cause that's all that matters at the end of the day.

That's an awfully ignorant way to put it. The coach does not control every single aspect that comes into play in whether a team will become champion or not.
 

Alik

Moderator
He always played that 4 men midfield in the big matches.Just to fit in Cesc it seemed.Always played better when he got subbed out.

The reason he played 4 men in midfield was not to to fit in Cesc but to have more control of the game because we were struggling with that and our defence was leaking goals. It worked for a bit.
 

mssarm

Member
Well, let's not forget he greatly improved Barca defense despite having just puyol as "new CB". Before him in last Guardiola year and under Villanova our defense was pretty weak. We basically always looked to outscore and outpossess our opponents. When it didn't work the things were not ... pretty (Bayern%2
 
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KingMessi

SiempreBlaugrana
I don't think you can compare Tata and Lucho. Too much has changed, and there is, to the players at least, a huge difference between Tata and Lucho. Lucho is a club legend, and he commands respect. Tata was destroyed by the BCN media; the guy never stood a chance.

I will say this though. Lucho has us playing better than we ever were under Tata. I'll leave it at that. Take it however you want to.
 

mssarm

Member
I don't think you can compare Tata and Lucho. Too much has changed, and there is, to the players at least, a huge difference between Tata and Lucho. Lucho is a club legend, and he commands respect. Tata was destroyed by the BCN media; the guy never stood a chance.

I will say this though. Lucho has us playing better than we ever were under Tata. I'll leave it at that. Take it however you want to.

+1. Can't understand the Tata hype.
 

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