Jose Mourinho

Raed

Raed

Dr. Raed St. Claire
Centauri B said:
The role of coaches in general is grossly overrated by both fans and pundits. Hence, both Pep and Jose are mightily overrated as a byproduct.
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No it is not. Capello beating your team with half his stars out is exactly why it isn't. Capello bringing success back to real with a very shit team is exactly why it isnt. Hiring Rafa or Tata is exactly why managers earn what they earn and it exactly why Luis Enrique is leaving.
 
C

Centauri B

New member
Raed said:
No it is not. Capello beating your team with half his stars out is exactly why it isn't. Capello bringing success back to real with a very shit team is exactly why it isnt. Hiring Rafa or Tata is exactly why managers earn what they earn and it exactly why Luis Enrique is leaving.
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The richest clubs that get their transfers right are the ones that dominate, totally irrespective of who is manager. Everything else is fleeting and/or an exception that confirms the rule.

Take your ten best managers and put them in 10 poor clubs and they will get the exact same poor results. Pick your 10 worst managers an put them in the ten richest/best clubs and they will get the same good results. There is no evidence in the global history of football to disprove this.

Many say that Pep is horrifically overrated, he still won 2 CLs (among many other titles) Many say that Lucho is 100% clueless, but he still won a treble (among many other titles) If you tell me this was down to the players they had under their disposal then you are merely confirming my basic claim.

The only manager that can claim to have made some kind of discernible difference, is Diego Simeone.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
That is not true at all.

Managers can have a huge influence in the players they sign, the tactics, the players the choose in starting line up.

There is a reason that huge money is paid for the top managers. Not that it makes anything guaranteed.

Pep took Barca from third in table and a squad who some of the top players were unmotivated to one of the best sides ever in space of 12 months.
 
C

Centauri B

New member
JamDav1982 said:
That is not true at all.

Managers can have a huge influence in the players they sign, the tactics, the players the choose in starting line up.

There is a reason that huge money is paid for the top managers. Not that it makes anything guaranteed.

Pep took Barca from third in table and a squad who some of the top players were unmotivated to one of the best sides ever in space of 12 months.
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Every single thing came together in the 08/09 season. Messi came to prominence and got over his injuries. Lots o dead wood was shipped off and Dani Alves was added. Also, Xavi and Iniesta both hit peak form. Pep was at the right place at the right time.
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Centauri B said:
Every single thing came together in the 08/09 season. Messi came to prominence and got over his injuries. Lots o dead wood was shipped off and Dani Alves was added. Also, Xavi and Iniesta both hit peak form. Pep was at the right place at the right time.
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Messi got over his injuries was part of it but Pep and his tactics suited to the players was by far the biggest factor.

Alves was added and Pep played a part in wanting him for his system.

Xavi and Iniesta were made the focal point of the team by Pep in a style that suited them.

Pep made a massive difference anyone denying that doesnt have a clue.
 
C

Centauri B

New member
JamDav1982 said:
Messi got over his injuries was part of it but Pep and his tactics suited to the players was by far the biggest factor.

Alves was added and Pep played a part in wanting him for his system.

Xavi and Iniesta were made the focal point of the team by Pep in a style that suited them.

Pep made a massive difference anyone denying that doesnt have a clue.
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Then why can't Pep replicate his initial success?
 
J

JamDav1982

Senior Member
Centauri B said:
Then why can't Pep replicate his initial success?
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Because that success was a meeting of a manager and a perfect group of players for his approach.

Likewise why have Barca never replicated the success before or since with many of the same players?

That best ever club side had Peps influence throughout.
 
serghei

serghei

Senior Member
Pep was the main figure in the making of Barca 2009-11. The creator of that team. In 2008 it did not seem that a sextuple would be the logical follow-up in 2009. Guardiola's total football style made it possible above everything else. A different manager could have still been succesfull, but not in that manner. How you win is often more important than just winning.
 
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Messi983

Messi983

Senior Member
serghei said:
Pep was the main figure in the making of Barca 2009-11. The creator of that team. In 2008 it did not seem that a sextuple would be the logical follow-up in 2009. Guardiola's total football style made it possible above everything else. A different manager could have still been succesfull, but not in that manner. How you win is often more important than just winning.
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Not for everyone. Ask Madrid fans if they care how they won their last 2 CL titles and how they could win it again this year.
 
Andrew M

Andrew M

New member
JamDav1982 said:
Messi got over his injuries was part of it but Pep and his tactics suited to the players was by far the biggest factor.

Alves was added and Pep played a part in wanting him for his system.

Xavi and Iniesta were made the focal point of the team by Pep in a style that suited them.

Pep made a massive difference anyone denying that doesnt have a clue.
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I'm late on this but Spain's success in 2008 cannot be overstated. The biggest moment in Xavi's development.
 
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