Jose Mourinho

BBZ8800

BBZ8800

Senior Member
Regarding Mourinho and Real, teams who had Messi in their team, won 8 La liga titles in 11 years.
Real and Atletico had numerous managers and couldn't do anything against Messi's team OVER 38 ROUNDS.

It would be fun to see how would even Pep cope AGAINST MESSI's team over 38 league rounds.

And then mentioning Pep's career at Bayern as something special, well, the bias is strong here.

Regarding coaches, maybe maths and life would be more objective if we would remove titles won win MESSI, or titles lost against Messi.
Many tried to stop Messi over 38 rounds, and not too many succeeded in that.
 
khaled_a_d

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Leo_Messi said:
Pep's time in Bayern cannot be considered mediocre by any means unless winning 3 league titles in 3 years, reaching 3 Cl-semifinals in a row (let us be honest here at no point did Bayern have the best squad in Europe in those seasons maybe with the exception of the 2013-14 season), and 2 domestic cups (as well as the other 2 smaller cups that he won such as the European Super Cup and the FIFA Club World Cup) in 3 seasons is "mediocre". Surely no sane person would have expected Bayern to win 3 CL's in a row competing with the two Spanish giants and Messi and Ronaldo, would they?

Mourinho's record is nowhere close. A reminder. That RM team from 2010 onwards was the most expensive team in Europe (by far) back then. What Mourinho just accomplished with Inter (treble) is most likely his best accomplishment to date. The hype was enormous and the narrative was that he came to stop our dominance. Something he failed at.

You are very much wrong. Fans in Spain, especially the two giants, very much care about how their manager behaves, the kind of football that their team is playing (maybe RM less) and the media narrative surounding their clubs. There was a reason why the El Clásico were more poisonous during Mourinho's era than ever before (arguably) and after. The Tito episode. His constant spats with the local media. His antics. To just brush it under the carpet is ridiculous as that did not occur back then.

That is your personal opinion. I am yet to see anyone rate his time at RM other than as mediocre. We have been operating with failure, mediocre and success in this debate. Clearly his stint belongs in the mediocre category and closer to failure than success given the expectations and what I wrote above.

Only seen English media (at the time) consider his stint anything else other than mediocre and that had more to do with them having had (historically) a love for him. Something that is no longer the case after his meltdowns of recent years and failures.

Unlike Pep who is creating history in England while we speak during an era where the league has never had as many great/good managers at once and with more money floating around in the league than ever and with even the likes of Liverpool spending big money. All while competing on all fronts (all 4 tournaments). Winning one of them, being a favorite for the FA Cup and the EPL title. Not exactly what I would call "mediocre". Coming off from a record season in the same EPL.
Like with Bayern (even less so) the current City team is not even better than that of PSG on paper so expecting them to win the CL, if not it will be a failure, is ridiculous as well. However we already had that discussion before.
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I am not really wrong at that, quit the opposite.
Most RM fans loved Mourinho and the rivalry he brought, they needed that fresh competitiveness in the team. They hate him at the end and obviously loved Carlo and Zidane but never seen him as failure as you are pointing out.
And Pep was hated in Germany. Pep was way more hyped than any other manager in history when he joined Bayern, Mourinho isn't even close to that when he joined RM in 2010. Bayern was best team in Europe, RM was expensive but was heading into Manu territory when Mourinho joined, Bayern had no one to challenge them, Mourinho was joining the underdog team to save them against best team in football history. For Bayern fans Pep dragged them down while Mourinho actually brought RM up.
RM fans hated that Barca's Pep so much that they had no problem dealing with the devil to break our dominance, Mourinho was the guy to achieve that, he was a needed stepping stone for their recent success. Helped to establish the core of the team that won them trophies too later. Had historical league season too.
 
Leo_Messi

Leo_Messi

New member
BBZ8800 said:
Regarding Mourinho and Real, teams who had Messi in their team, won 8 La liga titles in 11 years.
Real and Atletico had numerous managers and couldn't do anything against Messi's team OVER 38 ROUNDS.

It would be fun to see how would even Pep cope AGAINST MESSI's team over 38 league rounds.

And then mentioning Pep's career at Bayern as something special, well, the bias is strong here.

Regarding coaches, maybe maths and life would be more objective if we would remove titles won win MESSI, or titles lost against Messi.
Many tried to stop Messi over 38 rounds, and not too many succeeded in that.
Click to expand...

Teams who had CR7 won 4 CL in 5 years. What kind of argument is that? Capello and Schuster won leagues while having Messi as their opponent. As did Zidane. The likes of Pellegrini and Ancelloti were 1 game away from winning the league as well. It is only in the last 2 seasons that RM has been imploding in the league and surprise, surprise, the 2012-13 season under Mourinho. Otherwise we never won the league with more than 5 points if I am not wrong since 2009.

Insinuating that Messi won those 8 leagues on his own is ridiculous. If single players, even GOAT's like Messi, would be capable of that he would have won 3 World Cups by now and 2-3 Copa América titles. Not a big fat zero.

What is funnier is trying to downplay that RM team (most expensive in the world by far back then but let us just forget that) and the fact that Mourinho (back then) was the most highly rated manager just coming off a treble win with freaking Inter and beating Pep in the process.

Somehow 1 league title (full of controversy) and winning 1 CdR title in extra time (with an wrongfully disallowed goal by Pedro ruled offside and RM not getting 1-2 red cards) in 3 seasons is seen as successful and not mediocre, while Pep's time at Bayern and City is considered mediocre.
Talk about bias, indeed.

However not the least surprised as I suspect that both of you two like Mourinho and his football so obviously the narrative of Mourinho succeeding and Pep somehow failing is the one that will be supported even though it is thoroughly absurd.:lol:
 
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El Gato

El Gato

Villarato!

I fucking hate how good he is with his words. He's so literate. Since hearing him during the WC I've not heard a better pundit. He's so consistently good at how he articulates his, albeit possibly outdated, philosophy and view of football. So many insights in this interview, from social media, through technology, to player-manager relationships.
 
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M

Morten

Senior Member
I like him as a pundit, he just turns grumpy when he is a coach, cares about nothing but getting results.
He probably should stay as a pundit for a while, RM would not be good for him or us atm.
 
Leo_Messi

Leo_Messi

New member
He would be most suited for the likes of PSG or Inter. Problem is that Tuchel looks like the perfect fit for PSG stylistically (proponent of a football that the Qataris want to see) and he has developed a great chemistry with Neymar and Mbappé and the other star players. Inter for obvious reasons (no other alternatives in Italy). The club where he is most revered and where his greatest success was. Likes Italy and Serie A and probably the league that fits him best in terms of his philosophy. The problem is that Inter is not where he wants them to be and far from being able to compete with a giant like Juve. So Mourinho would probably not be up for the challenge or capable of turning Inter's fortunes around without massive financial backing.

England is definitely ruled out anytime soon. The elite clubs that is. Germany? Can't see him in either Dortmund or Bayern with the old guard around.

That leaves Spain and basically only one club in RM. Something that I am truly hoping for as I could very well see him imploding for the final time in club football and basically condemning himself to a future as a NT coach. There is only so many implosions that a manager can take his age before he becomes a persona non grata. Even the likes of Mourinho. Here is hoping.
 
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Givenchy

Givenchy

Senior Member
he should of followed Pep and took a sabbatical after Madrid imo, clearly doesn't have the passion in managing anymore. the game has passed him and his tactics by and Mourinho being Mr ego is too stubborn to change
 
El Gato

El Gato

Villarato!
He won't condemn himself to anything as long as he keeps creating positive relationships with presidents and backroom. He is good at talking himself into any job that isn't based on working with wholly dogmatic people. RM, Inter, PSG, Chelsea, could even go back to United in 5-10 years. All depends on the generations of players he's asked to work with.
 
DonAK

DonAK

President of FC Barcelona
He would be perfect for International Football. He can get his ego boost by winning a Euro or World Cup with Italy.
 
Leo_Messi

Leo_Messi

New member
His managerial profile is not as highly sought after as it was just a few seasons ago. He is not a youngster anymore either. 56 years old. He will have at most 10+ years (at most) left in the game. Half of those will likely be as a coach of a NT as he has said many times. Would fit how Portugal has been playing in the C. Ronaldo era. Problem is that Portugal have some very talented generations and U-teams and Mourinho and talents is a bad combination.

Can't see him ever returning to Man Utd. A misfit from the start and the fans would never want him back. Does not fit their footballing philosophy either. If Man Utd had a competent board they would never have appointed him in the first place.

Can't see Abramovich ever go after him either unless extremely desperate. There are plenty of talented managers out there (much younger too) with more exciting and newer visions and more are arriving as managers are getting better and better.

Inter only if they will return to being an actual competitor to Juve and in Europe and that is not a given. Them wandering in the desert could occur for many more years as long as Juve reign supreme on all fronts.

The Qataris will probably only go for him if they somehow fail to win the CL in the next few seasons with Mbappé and Neymar around. They might try a pragmatic and old-fashioned method in Mourinho (if he will not be further outgrown by modern-day football by then).

RM (Pérez has not many years left) can surely do much better than freaking Mourinho. Even if the goal is to have a manager with an iron fist and who is brave and bold.

NT it is within 5 years I believe if not less. Another meltdown, say at RM, (once again) and he will turn into a persona non grata at the elite clubs as I wrote. No doubt about it.
 
FCBfan22

FCBfan22

Senior Member
Big ego managers just don't work anymore. Look what hapened to Henry or Conte, who apparently had same problems.
 
Joan

Joan

Well-known member
Wolfe said:

I fucking hate how good he is with his words. He's so literate. Since hearing him during the WC I've not heard a better pundit. He's so consistently good at how he articulates his, albeit possibly outdated, philosophy and view of football. So many insights in this interview, from social media, through technology, to player-manager relationships.
Click to expand...

Amazing guy, trully. I never miss his what he has to say. Interesting to listen to, great knowledge, experience... just amazing. Slowly becoming my favorite pundit.
 
Leo_Messi

Leo_Messi

New member
Joan said:
Amazing guy, trully. I never miss his what he has to say. Interesting to listen to, great knowledge, experience... just amazing. Slowly becoming my favorite pundit.
Click to expand...

Let us be honest. The competition is not exactly great. I suspect that a few users here, you and me included dare I say ( :lol: ), could come off more interesting and knowledgeable than some of the bums that they are using. Andy Gray and other outdated clowns. No disrespect. From what I have seen the pundits in the UK are really something else. In a negative fashion. Not the same case in Spain or Italy for instance. Or I suspect Germany as well.

Obviously Mourinho is one of the more interesting and knowledgable managers out there. Not exactly news.

Sometimes, based on your posts and views, I think that being a juventino would have suited you the best. No offense.:lol:
 
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Joan

Joan

Well-known member
Leo_Messi said:
Obviously Mourinho is one of the more interesting and knowledgable managers out there. Not exactly news.

Sometimes, based on your posts and views, I think that being a juventino would have suited you the best. No offense.:lol:
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Aye, the competition helps. I agree. But himself, Mourinho is an interesting person. There are different kinds of managers. Some sound politically correct as possible, managing to reduce your knowledge of certain situations they address. Valverde being the master of the technique. Others try to talk but can't. He's a talented guy. And is not afraid to express his views of things, trying to justify some of the ways he's been using throughout his career. Also gives great insight into manager-player relationships in a different way.

Regarding other pundits, I was listening to Jose the other day, he was talking about tech used in football, said some managers used tech to mask their lack of knowledge. Same often goes for pundits.

Regarding the last bit... :lol: :lol: no offense taken. Could be. ;) But things like that can just happen, there is rarely logic behind. I don't watch Barca for sheer entertainment, there's that. To be frank, that approach gets on my nerves.
 
El Gato

El Gato

Villarato!
Joan said:
Amazing guy, trully. I never miss his what he has to say. Interesting to listen to, great knowledge, experience... just amazing. Slowly becoming my favorite pundit.
Click to expand...

What's so incredible is his ability to recall. He comes up with these goals, matches and trends in football dating back to 15 years ago. He is able to give an example of a random cup Drogba goal in the final to make his point where none of us would know what it looked like and in what circumstances it was scored. He recalls details of what happened when he hid in the basket, names, places, he talks without a block as to what the managers are doing on the transfer market over the years. But he also largely stays respectful of his managerial peers (that time he simply refused to answer a question that intended to get him to say he thinks he'd be better than Pochettino at Spurs). And he is never afraid to bring up his former jobs. There is no shame, only critical assessment of what happened. The way he says "it depends" really reflects he's not one to be baited into easy answers and tends to elaborate on the topic in question.

So knowledgeable. I really think he is a better judge of character on players than anybody gives him credit for. His psychoanalysis, techniques of engaging with media.. man's a mountain of charisma. I think he's far from done in football. I don't see a reason as to why any of his former teams wouldn't take him on if he presented them a vision for the squad. He's the kind of guy that can talk himself into any job where there are no obvious philosophical barriers (i.e. Barcelona, Liverpool and maybe top-tier German teams).

I really hope he does long stretches of punditry in between a few jobs to keep his insight into the game fresh.
 
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