tacticvarium
New member
Becoming Turan 2.0. Even Cesc was a better fit and did more.
Hope Fraudverde finds a way to use him more effectively.
Hope Fraudverde finds a way to use him more effectively.
7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1
- Thread starter AnfieldEd
- Start date
El Gato
Villarato!
Ronaldinhobarca10
Banned
He plays 10x better in Brazil than for Barca lol
Pepe Silvia
Active member
He was really dangerous and provided some great link up play, good passes, and just needed sharpness on his finishing that's all. Good game.
Gnidrologist
Senior Member
He was good on the ball. His problem and not only in this match is sort of an apathy, lack of involvement in off the ball movement. Either bad system for him or that's just his con that we'll have to live with. The same as Dembele's inability to make a simple pass, while scoring golazos and making great assists.
Leo_Messi
New member
Is it just me or or was he quicker at Liverpool? He would have been twice the player if he was quicker.
Unlucky tonight. Not his best performance but at least he was somewhat active rather than the lethargic version against Villarreal.
You can't compare his position for Brazil or the tactics and formations that Tite is using with what is used at Barça.
Tite is usually using a 4-2-3-1 formation. Coutinho being an attacking midfielder shielded by 2 defensive/central midfielders behind him and Neymar on the left and another wing on the right and a number 9 upfront. That's IMO the best position for him and where his lack of space is least "harmful" and least to his disadvantage.
Valverde is wasting him a bit when playing him as a winger in a 4-3-3 formation due to his lack of space, runs in between the lines etc.
For Coutinho and Dembélé to play at the same time effectively a formation change is needed.
Unlucky tonight. Not his best performance but at least he was somewhat active rather than the lethargic version against Villarreal.
You can't compare his position for Brazil or the tactics and formations that Tite is using with what is used at Barça.
Tite is usually using a 4-2-3-1 formation. Coutinho being an attacking midfielder shielded by 2 defensive/central midfielders behind him and Neymar on the left and another wing on the right and a number 9 upfront. That's IMO the best position for him and where his lack of space is least "harmful" and least to his disadvantage.
Valverde is wasting him a bit when playing him as a winger in a 4-3-3 formation due to his lack of space, runs in between the lines etc.
For Coutinho and Dembélé to play at the same time effectively a formation change is needed.
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Messigician
Senior Member
Coutinho is starting to confuse and infuriate me
henias
New member
Tite still uses 433 or a 4141 with a main destroyer Casemiro and occasionally Coutinho as a much deeper CM role, some could say he's a False 10.
Valverde actually plays a 4231 even though it's 433 on paper, especially with Coutinho.
The problem isn't quite the 433 formation wise but their roles that have been incongruent. Coutinho needs to adapt and play a much deeper role, for that to happen u need a more flexible midfield instead of the usual flat 442 or 4231 in Barcelona, because Rakitic and Busquets are too stagnant.
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Leo_Messi
New member
Not the traditional 'Barça 4-3-3'. Brazil's 4-2-3-1 formation on paper and most importantly in practice is not the same 4-3-3 or 4-3-2-1 (as you called it) formation that Valverde is using. Unless you believe that Rakitic's position is comparable to what Willian, Costa etc. are doing when playing on the right in Tite's 4-2-3-1 formation.
It's very much about formations and tactics as Coutinho's talent is wasted/misused in the current formation and I struggle to see how any manager is going to fit Coutinho and Dembélé into the same team without using a different formation than what is currently being used.
Agree with the midfield (Busquets and Rakitic) otherwise and I have been saying this frequently in the past 2 years in fact when most people were seemingly blind to the decline of not only Rakitic but Busquets as well. Here and elsewhere. However my view on Coutinho that I wrote about a few pages back is unchanged unless proven wrong in the future.
xXKonan
Senior Member
Coutinho is a good dribbler but what sucks is he lacks that extra tight control in tight spaces like Hazard, Iniesta, Messi etc has.
He's not slow as a snail as Rafinha is but still isn't the quickest guy out there. If he had what the likes of those guys had above, Cou at LW wouldn't really be that bad.
He's not slow as a snail as Rafinha is but still isn't the quickest guy out there. If he had what the likes of those guys had above, Cou at LW wouldn't really be that bad.
Leo_Messi
New member
If he was quicker and had a better close-control in tight spaces he would be an "Hazard type" of player and talent. In other words world class on his position. Coutinho, on a good day, is a world class talent (without a doubt) but I struggle to spot his ideal position. Especially at Barça. The reason why he usually plays much better for Brazil (in particular during the World Cup), I believe, is down to Tite's system fitting him better.
I still believe that he can succeed down the line (not sure if he will ever be worth 160 million euros though - doubtful if you ask me) but I can't see it happening as a winger in a 4-3-3.
henias
New member
Never said it was a "Barca 433". Tite still fancies a flexible midfield 3 by nature as opposed to Valverde's double pivot roles. Brazil's 4231 on paper usually translates to a 4141 or 433 on the pitch.
I also never said Coutinho is the best fit in our system as well if you look at my post the previous page but more of the players that make up of it. But Valverde hardly ever used a 433 rather a 4213 or a 4231. Agree that Valverde's tactics needs to change but dont agree he's actually using a 433.
433 is fine, just not Valverde's so called "433". And Coutinho needs to adapt to playing deeper.
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Leo_Messi
New member
That's not how I see it. Every formation is flexible depending on the game and obviously Tite is no different however I am talking "by default" formation here and I see little resemblance. Let alone when taking Tite's more dynamic midfield options (IMO) into consideration. We don't have to agree.
I have written earlier that the current 4-3-3 that Valverde is using (or what is left of it) is not the old 4-3-3 due to the personel that he has at his disposal currently and Valverde being Valverde.
I never wrote anything about you claiming that "Coutinho is the best fit in our system".
The point of the matter is that Coutinho does not fit our current 4-3-3 (or whatever you want to call it) or a traditional 'Barça 4-3-3' as a winger, as I see it.
Personally I would like to see a midfield composed of Coutinho, Vidal/Busquets and Arthur have a run of games in a row but that is as likely as us selling Coutinho to Chelsea and buying Hazard for instance. Not going to happen with Valverde as a manager due to his darling Rakitic.
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