7 - Philippe Coutinho - V1

FCB1987

Banned
I was just going through some Barca images I saved and came across this which bought a tear to my eye.

i


The Master passing the torch to his Successor.

Beautiful moment.

What an incredible year it's been with Coutinho. Simply amazing with all that we've achieved with Cou as an integral player in our team.

The photo should be Iniesta with Denis then
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
I think our two best alternatives this summer for the attack

1) sell Coutinho and get Griezmann

2) sell Coutinho and Malcom, buy Sane and a Jesus/Jovic type backup striker

[MENTION=19457]KingLeo10[/MENTION]

"Ah yes, we're having trouble with Coutinho because he's neither forward or a winger. What should we do? Buy another player with an unconventional playing role!" Seriously, just how unbalanced is that. A no. 10, a second striker, and a striker as the front three. No width lmao.

Just imagine if Griezmann actually came last summer. We'd have Coutinho, Griezmann, Messi, Dembele, and Suarez as our forward options. And considering Valverde actually realises Coutinho is a shit midfielder, we'd have two 100m+ signings (Suarez and Messi are definitely playing, only one of the 3 left would get the third spot) on the bench most of the time. It's genuinely hilarious, thank god he rejected us.
 

BarçaBarça

New member
"Ah yes, we're having trouble with Coutinho because he's neither forward or a winger. What should we do? Buy another player with an unconventional playing role!" Seriously, just how unbalanced is that. A no. 10, a second striker, and a striker as the front three. No width lmao.

Just imagine if Griezmann actually came last summer. We'd have Coutinho, Griezmann, Messi, Dembele, and Suarez as our forward options. And considering Valverde actually realises Coutinho is a shit midfielder, we'd have two 100m+ signings (Suarez and Messi are definitely playing, only one of the 3 left would get the third spot) on the bench most of the time. It's genuinely hilarious, thank god he rejected us.

Valverde has never had a Suarez-backup he trusted, so I actually believe that Suarez/Griezmann would just split the minutes as CF.

Right now I'd rather have Griezmann than some hyped youngster no one cares about in 2 years..
 

Laplacian

Senior Member
Valverde has never had a Suarez-backup he trusted, so I actually believe that Suarez/Griezmann would just split the minutes as CF.

Right now I'd rather have Griezmann than some hyped youngster no one cares about in 2 years..


The problem is, griezmann is not a conventional forward. He just doesn't work as a lone striker, he needs to play off a number 9 to play at his best. He wouldn't rotate with Suarez, he'd take the 3rd spot and take up Messi's position when he's resting.
 

MTL_Barca

Well-known member
Valverde has never had a Suarez-backup he trusted, so I actually believe that Suarez/Griezmann would just split the minutes as CF.

Right now I'd rather have Griezmann than some hyped youngster no one cares about in 2 years..

Just from a quality and standing point of view yes, but i wouldn't be so sure that Ernie likes him as a CF all that much. Could very well just end up like Coutinho as Iniesta heir = Griezmann ends up playing LW and we're back to square one :lol:
 

BarçaBarça

New member
The problem is, griezmann is not a conventional forward. He just doesn't work as a lone striker, he needs to play off a number 9 to play at his best. He wouldn't rotate with Suarez, he'd take the 3rd spot and take up Messi's position when he's resting.

Just from a quality and standing point of view yes, but i wouldn't be so sure that Ernie likes him as a CF all that much. Could very well just end up like Coutinho as Iniesta heir = Griezmann ends up playing LW and we're back to square one :lol:

If that is the case, then it wouldn't be good, no. But he is world class, so I'm not sure he couldn't take a 9 in an atracking Barca team :thinking: Our system is way different than Atletico where he is consistently great, and he would have better attackingchances here..
 

Potroh

New member
Just from a quality and standing point of view yes, but i wouldn't be so sure that Ernie likes him as a CF all that much. Could very well just end up like Coutinho as Iniesta heir = Griezmann ends up playing LW and we're back to square one :lol:

True, because - unfortunately - EV has very limited imagination...

A creative coach ALWAYS matches the tactics, posts, to the given players he has.
A setup should always mirror the key-players and their unmistakable characteristics.
All that EV actually does is having a 4-3-3, a 4-4-2 and also a semi-4-3-3 setup, and he plays the them accordingly, by trying to match his players to one of his favored setups.

If he had creative imagination, there would be definitely place for both Coutinho and Dembele (obviously NOT merely as LWs), so ideally he should "invent" a formation where Coutinho's ability having a sort of "creator-role" and Dembele's speed and unpredictability could both be used for a creative attacking formation.
But EV does not have that gift of fantasy.

Thus, as far as scoring goals, he is merely dependent on Messi's genius and Suarez's still existing hunger and capability to score, but the latter is simply an occasional and unpredictable ingredient by now. That's why the mentioned two are his almost sole offensive weapons, Messi playing in a free-role and the rapidly declining Suarez playing as a classic center-forward, which actually fits into the team's overall flow of attacking only when Suarez has good periods or better days.

That's why Coutinho is not a fit and never will be, until EV is the trainer.

Did EV think this over when the club was waiting for Coutinho to join? Did he "invent" a formation that suits both Messi and Coutinho? He has definitely not done that.
He experimented Cou to play on the right, as a midfielder, as a left winger, but strictly by his original 4-3-3 formation (and there's no need to mention the mostly ill-fated defensive 4-4-2 of his).

A coach with imagination would definitely have invented a new strategy after Neymar's departure, would have definitely made use of the pace of Dembele as an addition, but you can clearly see that neither Dembele's speed is actually used (tactically) nor Coutinho's abilities as a creator (which he does quite well in Brazil's NT).

Neither Coutinho, nor Griezmann or anyone else for that matter will ever solve the problem, until a coach realizes that by having world-class individual players is not enough in itself (not for optimal results but for optimum play and style) to solve the problems that still exist, regardless the actual number of trophies being won.

The team has no real attacking-minded midfielders (like Xavi and Iniesta were) and hence there is a gap between the midfield and Messi-Suarez.
Thus Messi needs to go deeper to do also the creating part, Alba almost plays as a winger, which needs to re-invent the role of a LF, and Dembele's abilities are just not used enough in this slowish setup, as well as the potential abilities of Coutinho aren't.

Until EV (or another coach) realizes that he needs a different setup, tailored to his best available players, all results will be occasional and NOT due to structural supremacy.
 

mc_lovin

Senior Member
Easier said than done. His "creativity" for Brazil is also overblown. In 2018 he certainly had match winning moments for Brazil, but he never looked dominant. And he was anchored by 2 dms/box to box players, something I dont want to see in Barcelona. If he cant play in a 2(a)cm/1dm setup he has to play as a forward and thus competing with Dembele (Suarez is rightfully set).

Personally I dont mind Coutinho too much - he gives insane squad depth and looks - from time to time - incredible on the ball. But thats probably hardly worth 140m+. And I would rather have a real forward.
 

Mido

New member
True, because - unfortunately - EV has very limited imagination...

A creative coach ALWAYS matches the tactics, posts, to the given players he has.
A setup should always mirror the key-players and their unmistakable characteristics.
All that EV actually does is having a 4-3-3, a 4-4-2 and also a semi-4-3-3 setup, and he plays the them accordingly, by trying to match his players to one of his favored setups.

If he had creative imagination, there would be definitely place for both Coutinho and Dembele (obviously NOT merely as LWs), so ideally he should "invent" a formation where Coutinho's ability having a sort of "creator-role" and Dembele's speed and unpredictability could both be used for a creative attacking formation.
But EV does not have that gift of fantasy.

Thus, as far as scoring goals, he is merely dependent on Messi's genius and Suarez's still existing hunger and capability to score, but the latter is simply an occasional and unpredictable ingredient by now. That's why the mentioned two are his almost sole offensive weapons, Messi playing in a free-role and the rapidly declining Suarez playing as a classic center-forward, which actually fits into the team's overall flow of attacking only when Suarez has good periods or better days.

That's why Coutinho is not a fit and never will be, until EV is the trainer.

Did EV think this over when the club was waiting for Coutinho to join? Did he "invent" a formation that suits both Messi and Coutinho? He has definitely not done that.
He experimented Cou to play on the right, as a midfielder, as a left winger, but strictly by his original 4-3-3 formation (and there's no need to mention the mostly ill-fated defensive 4-4-2 of his).

A coach with imagination would definitely have invented a new strategy after Neymar's departure, would have definitely made use of the pace of Dembele as an addition, but you can clearly see that neither Dembele's speed is actually used (tactically) nor Coutinho's abilities as a creator (which he does quite well in Brazil's NT).

Neither Coutinho, nor Griezmann or anyone else for that matter will ever solve the problem, until a coach realizes that by having world-class individual players is not enough in itself (not for optimal results but for optimum play and style) to solve the problems that still exist, regardless the actual number of trophies being won.

The team has no real attacking-minded midfielders (like Xavi and Iniesta were) and hence there is a gap between the midfield and Messi-Suarez.
Thus Messi needs to go deeper to do also the creating part, Alba almost plays as a winger, which needs to re-invent the role of a LF, and Dembele's abilities are just not used enough in this slowish setup, as well as the potential abilities of Coutinho aren't.

Until EV (or another coach) realizes that he needs a different setup, tailored to his best available players, all results will be occasional and NOT due to structural supremacy.

I was also thinking a few months ago of "inventing" a formation so to speak to make both Dembélé and Coutinho starters.

Unfortunately, I think it would need some weeks if not months to practice gradually, and Barca might get knocked out cold against the likes of Liverpool if they try to turn on the heat without a clear defensive strategy.

Coutinho was tried in midfield but he didn't provide despite his seeming huge potential. Let's hope he fits there and Dembélé becomes a starting LW in a classical 4-3-3. Let's hope next season Coutinho makes it there if he stays… that might be a big if….

Sorry but criticizing Valverde at the moment is really really harsh. Results are there and we shouldn't complain about the playing game, that might be not too far from the best Barca can do with a Coutinho that didn't take Iniesta's place and new players coming in. Dembélé can also do better.

Xavi/Iniesta period is over, get over it.

Busquets and Messi are the most key players in my opinion. Finding replacements for them shall be a considerable task that should be thought about years before it is likely to happen.
 

Respekt_III

Anti-everything
There is no replacement for Messi we need to build an actual team and have a system that fits the players in that team. We are critical of Valverde because he doesn't implement a system, he just relys on individual talent to get us past most games.
 

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