Samuel Umtiti

abbbs97 said:

I’d sell him ASAP. Not only has he massively declined but he refuses to listen to club’s recommendations to get surgery.

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If this is the typical Barca-fan opinion and mentality, I would most definitely not play for a club like that.
Players have their "rights" to get ill, to get injured - even getting unfortunate bad injuries that last longer - and you don't have the faintest idea if the gossips about him rather selecting 'traditional' treatment is true or false.
Of course he opts for traditional cure if a surgery can be avoided. You would probably do the same...

Otherwise, every player has the 'rights' to have a worse or relatively bad season, without the fan-base shouting: SELL... SELLLLLL.
A huge club like this one is not a hogpen, where otherwise known to be very good pigs or animals get SLAUGHTERED and eaten when they get ill...

We don’t need these kinds of attitudes in this club.

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Attitude of WHAT???
Not going under the knife when still there's chance not to go?

Potroh said:

...
Not going under the knife when still there's chance not to go?

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Yes is it rarely as simple as going under the knife is universally (by docs) recommended, particularly for a situation like he has that may be chronic.

But I still want him sold. I felt he hasn't played well for Barca for 15 months. I also thought he played very distracted last year when flirting with United before the season was even finished, and I have always felt he sometimes would take uncess risks with the ball with relatively no upside completing the manover. I don't want my CBs getting cute.

So if we can get any kind of decent value, yes De Ligt in and him out.

And yes he does have a choice as he has a contract. He can be made clear he is going to sit on the bench (and rot) unless we get a rash of injuries ahead of him, or he can seek new club where he can regularly play and try to maintain his national team status. This isn't vindictive, it is just doing business, like he/his agent did business in the key part of our last season.

Sell him plus cash for Rashford or Cancelo

Potroh said:

If this is the typical Barca-fan opinion and mentality, I would most definitely not play for a club like that.
Players have their "rights" to get ill, to get injured - even getting unfortunate bad injuries that last longer - and you don't have the faintest idea if the gossips about him rather selecting 'traditional' treatment is true or false.
Of course he opts for traditional cure if a surgery can be avoided. You would probably do the same...

Otherwise, every player has the 'rights' to have a worse or relatively bad season, without the fan-base shouting: SELL... SELLLLLL.
A huge club like this one is not a hogpen, where otherwise known to be very good pigs or animals get SLAUGHTERED and eaten when they get ill...



Attitude of WHAT???
Not going under the knife when still there's chance not to go?

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I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a fan to want their not so good anymore player to be sold in order to bring in a new, younger and much more talented player instead. Especially if that player refuses to do surgery at the beginning of the season even when the club repeatedly told him to do it. Let’s not forget how awful he performed last year in crucial times just because he wants a new contract.

I’m grateful for what Umtiti did for us but I’d sell him because his value is still high right now and we need to reassure de Ligt that he will be getting enough minutes next season. It’s not as if Umtiti is the same CB as a year and a half ago. I also don’t like his attitude of him insisting that he will be a Barca player when it’s not at all clear that he will be one. It’s not up to him entirely.

When you are permanently injured, physicality is difficult to get. Without physicality, you can still get by in low tempo games but when the level of intensity rises, it becomes problematic.

Sometimes, hard choices need to be made and I would let go of a player who is beyond recovery. Having said that, if the prognosis invites optimism and the option is viable, I would prefer to allow players to heal naturally.

abbbs97 said:

I don’t think it’s unreasonable for a fan to want their not so good anymore player to be sold in order to bring in a new, younger and much more talented player instead.

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Yes, that's why I took the animal or hogpen example, because you sound like a medieval merchant, selling and buying animals or even slaves on the marketplace.

If a young talent had a bad season - for any known or unknown reason - it is perhaps good to think (or advise) he may make a better carrier elsewhere.
But in case of a player who had most definitely proven he was good and worthy, being at a good age, a bad season in itself is usually not enough to get rid of him.

Probably you don't know the feeling when a club-bureaucrat or coach tells a player to be SOLD - for whatever reason.
It's the exact word of human trafficking, or slavery that all players with minimal IQ just hate...

It’s not as if Umtiti is the same CB as a year and a half ago. I also don’t like his attitude of him insisting that he will be a Barca player when it’s not at all clear that he will be one. It’s not up to him entirely.

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A player's contract my stubborn friend, contains many different phrases and paragraphs about different conditions the contract can be terminated by either parties.
An injury, followed by a lengthy period of return, is usually NOT a reason to terminate the contract, so the player has the rights to remain and stay, if he thinks that's the best for him.

These contracts give rights and possibilities for the player too, not only to the club.
A player also needs carrier assurances and every sane club knows that anything can happen to a player with 4-5 years remaining in his contract, thus the clubs also take the RISKS if a promising player happen to be under-performing for any reason.

So you are right, it's not "up to him entirely" but you once again speak like a medieval merchant, who has the rights to do whatever he wants with his slave. It's "not up to the club entirely" - should the player, his lawyer or agent also say.
No, a contract is ALWAYS signed between two or more EQUAL parties, where the player is not just a mere puppet in the hands of the club.

Watching him especially today he just seemed so slow.

I get that he has been out for a long time now his movement and pace are so slow now. I have to wonder if part of that reason along with his injuries that he's afraid of pushing himself as in fear of possibly hurting his knee even further.

xXKonan said:

Watching him especially today he just seemed so slow.

I get that he has been out for a long time now his movement and pace are so slow now. I have to wonder if part of that reason along with his injuries that he's afraid of pushing himself as in fear of possibly hurting his knee even further.

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He has been like that for a while now. I think the club should issue an ultimatum to him: Either get the surgery done to have it taken care of once and for all or he will be sold. We can afford to have him always play so cautiously.

Luftstalag14 said:

He has been like that for a while now. I think the club should issue an ultimatum to him: Either get the surgery done to have it taken care of once and for all or he will be sold. We can afford to have him always play so cautiously.

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I just have a bad feeling that assuming we miss out on De Ligt, at some point early on in the season Umtiti is going to suffer another bad knee injury and will leave us with 3 CBs (Pique, Lenglet, and Todibo) as some Catalan journalists say we aren't going to get another CB if we miss out on De Ligt.

Just a guess? He's not all right at all right now. He probably still feels pain but is trying desperately to make it look like he's fine. I get it going under the knife is always the last resort but I think at this point Umtiti has exhausted all other options and Surgery appears to be the final thing left.

Vermaelen 2.0 with poor mentality and discipline.

We absolutely need to buy De Ligt, so that that Umtiti can go have surgery no problem (we can do fine with Todibo staying for that time as the 4th CB). And after Umtiti is back, Todibo goes on loan for the 2nd half of the season. If Umtiti keeps being stubborn, getting De Ligt gives us a chance to be really comfortable and give Umtiti an ultimatum...go have the surgery and get yourself properly fixed up, we can do without you for 6 months just fine, or we'll sell you now, if you're THAT stubborn and stupid. Don't know what's going in this guy's head, so he'd rather play in pain, when he knows his level is being diminished that way so he loses on the starting spot either way. Might as well get 100% fit and then attack the starting spot with all he's got and without pain.

I'm still dreaming of that Umtiti-De Ligt partnership, but I gotta say, sadly I think winning the World Cup really went into his head too much, you can see the same thing happening with Mbappe (all of a sudden demanding a leadership role 'wherever he plays' if not PSG he'll just leave, at least that's what he thinks , not to mention having probably the worst role model to watch and learn from every day in Neymar) but at least he's still really young and especially has everything left to play for and win in club football, while Umtiti may be past it, considering he already has that CL win and seems way too relaxed these days, when it comes to proving himself.

Umtiti is finished

gregorrin10 said:

Don't know what's going in this guy's head, so he'd rather play in pain, when he knows his level is being diminished that way so he loses on the starting spot either way. Might as well get 100% fit and then attack the starting spot with all he's got and without pain.

I'm still dreaming of that Umtiti-De Ligt partnership, but I gotta say, sadly I think winning the World Cup really went into his head too much, you can see the same thing happening with Mbappe (all of a sudden demanding a leadership role 'wherever he plays' if not PSG he'll just leave, at least that's what he thinks , not to mention having probably the worst role model to watch and learn from every day in Neymar) but at least he's still really young and especially has everything left to play for and win in club football, while Umtiti may be past it, considering he already has that CL win and seems way too relaxed these days, when it comes to proving himself.

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I just recall that moment of madness from Umtiti early on in the World Cup .. at a free kick / corner he jumped up to reach the ball but for some reason ended up wafting it away with his arm and gave a ridiculous penalty away ..

He’s not been the same player since then and the injury is just the last straw for me ..

Let us hope that he comes back fighting for his spot. He will have a long preseason to get into full gear again.

All in all we don't have that much to lose, as Lenglet has proven a fine backup, although no one knows if he will hit the same level as last season again.
I would have prefered to get De Ligt + keep Umtiti, but now we have to rely on our current centerbacks to deliver the job, and we have a decent chance of getting a good defensive season.

I believe he'll clinch his old starting spot sooner or later. He seems motivated to do so.