Cristiano Ronaldo - v1

This has had soooo much luck in his career, it's really mind boggling.

In all three CL wins his team miraculously won.

Terry missing the penalty to win it. He missed his own penalty and was thus bailed out.
Ramos scoring the header in the 93-th. He was awful and he was bailed out.
Griezmann missing the penalty, Juanfran missing the penalty. He was awful and Juanfran's miss took all the pressure away.

Yesterday was no surprise at all. He should sell horseshoes when he retires, i'll be the first in line to buy one.

It can't be just luck.
You can't be lucky all the time.

Science Kid said:

In all three CL wins his team miraculously won.

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Because they played against chokers Chelsea, Atletico and Atletico.
It is not Ronaldo's fault that a world if filled with chokers.

Science Kid said:

Terry missing the penalty to win it.

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A choker

Science Kid said:

Ramos scoring the header in the 93-th. He was awful and he was bailed out.

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Atletico chokers

Science Kid said:

Griezmann missing the penalty

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A choker

Science Kid said:

Juanfran missing the penalty.

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Another Atletico's small team choker

Science Kid said:

Yesterday was no surprise at all. He should sell horseshoes when he retires, i'll be the first in line to buy one.

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Croatia shitted their pans and choked and had zero mental strength.
Chokers level 20 000.
Not Cr7's fault again.

Cr7 is poorer and poorer since he is ageing.
But seriously, it is not his fault that Perisic tried 4 shots from insane angles.
That Modric choked.
That Rakitic choked.
That Vida can't hit a target from 2000 attempts.

If other players are idiots, in poor form or chockers, we can't blame CR7 for everything and say that he is the luckiest man alive.

No matter how much we hate him, a guy probably has mental strength+motivation higher than 99% of top players in the world.

ronaldo also choked in all of those finals, in yesteday's game too. his mental strength and motivation didn't amount to shit, he completely choked but got lucky that renato sanchez and quaresma, ramos and bale, and others were there to save his face. don't you dare say that he didnt choke yesterday, he even missed a sitter and got lucky quaresma was there for a follow up.

Lomar1o said:

ronaldo also choked in all of those finals, in yesteday's game too. his mental strength and motivation didn't amount to shit, he completely choked but got lucky that renato sanchez and quaresma, ramos and bale, and others were there to save his face. don't you dare say that he didnt choke yesterday, he even missed a sitter and got lucky quaresma was there for a follow up.

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How many shots Ronaldo had yesterday in total?
How many of his shots ended as a goal or has lead to a goal?

Also, how many shots you have to miss to consider it choking? 1, 2, 5, 10, 20?

CR7 sometimes misses a penalty or a shot.
But imo, you can't say that he is visibly shitting his pants when he plays big games.

One thing is to play bad in some key matches, like having poor passes for some reason.
The other thing is to choke when you are really afraid to make a final move (like a penalty or a 1 vs 1 shot in dying minutes) and win a trophy for your team.

Ronaldo missing a penalty on Euro isn't exactly choking.
He just missed a penalty.

Griezmann missing a penalty in a CL final IS CHOKING since he never won a major trophy and his team never won a major trophy and they were scared as fuck. (You could almost see it on his face)

So, playing bad doesn't equal to choking, imo.
Cr7 played bad yesterday, the same as 21 players on the field (Renato was the best, for example).
So, Cr7 was bad and couldn't do too much, but he hasn't chocked.
And eventually, when he had a chance in dying minutes to decide a match, he had one shot, a GK deflected a shot to Quaresma and he scored.

Cr7 played bad on this Euro, but he surely hasn't chocked, quite the opposite.

I am not sure if I want to go into this debate further (since you can't win here if you try to defend RM or CR7, surely)
Imo, MSN and BBC aren't chokers.
You can love/hate some of them, but they are more or less good in key matches.
If Barca wins a match against Real, that doesn't mean that BBC choked.
Barca was just better and had a better team's quality.

On the other hand, when Atletico plays like pussies in a final, that is choking in my eyes.

So, if you miss a penalty, a pass, a shot and similar, but in general you are good in decisive matches=you are not a choker, just a human.
On the other hand, if you (as a player) or your team (Atletico, Croatia) always lose in key matches in the same way=then you are chokers

In my eyes, I just still can't understand why is CR7 a choker?
We hate him. Fine.
He is annoying. Fine.
Messi is better. Fine.
We want that he loses all matches in RM and NT. Fine.
But still, when you sum everything, he is not a choker. But a guy who plays awesome (or at least productive) in majority of finals.
Even though from time to time he can miss a penalty, a 1 vs 1 etc.

If he wins the Ballon D'or... I give up.

BBZ8800 said:

But still, when you sum everything, he is not a choker. But a guy who plays awesome (or at least productive) in majority of finals.
Even though from time to time he can miss a penalty, a 1 vs 1 etc.

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He was very average in the man.u final, even missed his penalty.
He was invisible in the 14 cl final.
He was worse than invisible in this year's cl final, actually hurting real's attacks.

He was garbage in 2004 euro final, take a look at 2:48, if that's not choking under pressure I don't know what is.

[youtube]8dLsvA1g1-c[/youtube]

6 Ballons for Messi said:

He was very average in the man.u final, even missed his penalty.
He was invisible in the 14 cl final.
He was worse than invisible in this year's cl final, actually hurting real's attacks.

He was garbage in 2004 euro final, take a look at 2:48, if that's not choking under pressure I don't know what is.

[youtube]8dLsvA1g1-c[/youtube]

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Ok, to discuss whether someone is a choker or not, I think that we should first agree on what do we consider by choking.
And then see whether a player fits or not under that criteria.

Imo, chokers are players:
1. who play way weaker than their usual selves in finals and key matches when a lot is at stake
For example, if a player XX has 200 shots in one season and scores 50 goals, then he needs 4 shots on average for 1 goal.
If in finals during his career he has 20 shots and scores 0-1 goals=well, then he choked compared to his usual self and played well below his average
2. or if a player is usually a leader of his team and he is imposing himself and taking risks, while in a final, a player is hiding, a player is scared, a player is scared to take control or risks=he is a choker again
3. or if a player in general plays horrible in finals/key matches, like passing insanely inaccurate all the time, making unusual mistakes all the time, being visibly overimpressed by the match etc=that is choking

So, you see, if a player misses some chances or a penalty, he isn't a choker in my eyes, if he does that even in normal matches.

About Cr7, I wouldn't say that he plays visibly weaker in El Classicos, CL finals, Euro knockout matches than his usual self.

On the other hand, whole Atletico's team was visibly impressed in CL finals (even though they had some good actions, but in general they looked much different than their usual selves), or Croatian NT team, who goes MIA in all knockout matches compared to their displays in previous matches.

I don't know what game you watched but Ronaldo's games in finals and yesterday is a definition of choking on an individual level. had his teams lost those games you'd be thinking otherwise. he was absolutely irrelevant in the last two of cl finals, tell me he wasn't, absolutely irrelevant, he only got LUCKY with the deflection in yesterday's game, had griezman's penalty been rebounded and scored by someone else would you say the frenchman wasn't a choker in that game? no one said that CR is generally a choker, but just because he isn't a choker doesn't mean that he doesn't choke in games. messi choked against rm, against atleti, or are you denying it because messi generally isn't a choker? messi has had his share of bad games and games where he choked, and so does ronaldo, cl finals and yesterday's game are a prime example of that.

Lomar1o said:

I don't know what game you watched but Ronaldo's games in finals and yesterday is a definition of choking on an individual level. had his teams lost those games you'd be thinking otherwise. he was absolutely irrelevant in the last two of cl finals, tell me he wasn't, absolutely irrelevant, he only got LUCKY with the deflection in yesterday's game, had griezman's penalty been rebounded and scored by someone else would you say the frenchman wasn't a choker in that game? no one said that CR is generally a choker, but just because he isn't a choker doesn't mean that he doesn't choke in games. messi choked against rm, against atleti, or are you denying it because messi generally isn't a choker? messi has had his share of bad games and games where he choked, and so does ronaldo, cl finals and yesterday's game are a prime example of that.

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It can't be a choke if he never got the ball

That's hardly his problem or fault. The service was awful from both teams

BBZ8800 said:

About Cr7, I wouldn't say that he plays visibly weaker in El Classicos, CL finals, Euro knockout matches than his usual self.

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No, that's simply not true.
Cristiano has become the top scorer of real in 7 years and he has earned that title by scoring mostly against lesser teams, there are 2 cristiano's, one brimming with confidence playing against fodder and a very nervous, shaky and unreliable player when the going gets tough.

Cristiano is the biggest choker in modern football, a title previously held by robben.

barcafan161 said:

It can't be a choke if he never got the ball

That's hardly his problem or fault. The service was awful from both teams

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a good point but debatable. so tell me, why wasn't he getting service in cl finals then? maybe it's not just about the quality of the players surrounding him, maybe it's his fault as well because his presence becomes close to zero and he suddenly loses his ability of being a leader and add to that his mysterious knee injury that suddenly kicks in?! it's clear he choked in those matches, he becomes anonymous, irrelevant, not only his skills deteriorate but also his leadership, presence. that's not just playing bad, that's choking.

He is not the kind of player who drags his team. He shines very well when his team is doing good and creating chances. It will be too much to call him a choker but he sure is not a big game player. More service more goals as simple as that. When the opponents are parking the bus he will obviously struggle to shine because of his PlayStyle.

6 Ballons for Messi said:

No, that's simply not true.
Cristiano has become the top scorer of real in 7 years and he has earned that title by scoring mostly against lesser teams, there are 2 cristiano's, one brimming with confidence playing against fodder and a very nervous, shaky and unreliable player when the going gets tough.

Cristiano is the biggest choker in modern football, a title previously held by robben.

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Ok, I don't agree with that.
But I'll ask you and [MENTION=16937]Lomar1o[/MENTION], to see whether you are just hating Real and CR7, or you have some objectivity.

Question is:
Which players of Real Madrid's do you consider as "big boys" in finals, who always deliver/play as expected/doesn't disappoint?
And which Real Madrid's players do you consider as chokers in big matches?

Also, do you think that ANY player of Barca is a choker, or ALL of our players are equally as good in normal and key matches?

(I hope this won't turn into: all of our players are awesome in key matches, while majority of RM's players are chokers.
A proof: we won more titles than them :/)

more then ever Cristiano is dependent on service, before at least he could score from distance and could net in fks.. That aspect of him has seriously declined lol.

the insane thing is that he is still being compared to messi nowadays, a Messi who can still dribble past people, pass like no other, and score like one of the best.

BBZ8800 said:

Question is:
Which players of Real Madrid's do you consider as "big boys" in finals, who always deliver/play as expected/doesn't disappoint?
And which Real Madrid's players do you consider as chokers in big matches?

Also, do you think that ANY player of Barca is a choker, or ALL of our players are equally as good in normal and key matches?

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i'll put it differently, when playing against us i fear marcelo, ramos, pepe, varane, benzema, bale MORE than i fear or ever feared ronaldo, because they leave the impression on me that they can rise to the occasion, be more lethal and dangerous and actually hurt us, even though . when ronaldo has the ball i'm calm, unless there's pinto in between the goal posts and adriano is a cb. when other attacking players get the ball i'm tense, when there's a corner i fear those defenders more, but i admit that's like the only part of the game when i fear ronaldo because he is great in the air. and fear is genuine, i wouldn't just stop being afraid of him because i hate him, i hate marcelo too, i hate ramos too, but they really make me feel uneasy. ronaldo? fear him? never. i wish real had 11 ronaldos when playing against us, i'd be the calmest motherf***er ever =)))) in finals from current real madrid i guess ramos, marcelo and bale are big boys, maybe modric to some extent. like everyone else they can have bad games and games when they choke.

regarding our players i don't remember any of them choking in cl finals but for example the whole team choked this season starting from villareal game, and it wasn't just playing badly, you can still play badly but win, that was a complete choking by us. so yeah all of our players can have bad games and also games when they choke, those games when we almost lost out on every possible title is the most recent example. we also choke against chelsea. but i hope one day we meet them, their strongest line up and demolish them.

in normal matches i guess most of our players perform well. so do players from real and other strong teams, that's why they are strong teams.
in key matches it depends, i actually consider real to be playing better under pressure than we do, maybe im paranoid and that's my anxiety i always get the feeling that we struggle under pressure more than real does. but that's just me.