Real Madrid

JamDav1982 · Jun 21, 2020

Vilarrubi said:
Most as in, all the players walked back to the centre circle. VAR room couldn’t decide, had to get ref to look at it. So yeah it wasn’t obvious offside at all. If it was clearly offside play would have resumed straight away and none of those checks would have happened.

Players have done that plenty of times with goals shown to be offside. Doesnt mean anything and replay instantly showed correct decision.

The VAR room clearlyy showed to the referee it was offside. Are you saying it was not clear?

Vilarrubi · Jun 21, 2020

JamDav1982 said:
Players have done that plenty of times with goals shown to be offside. Doesnt mean anything and replay instantly showed correct decision.

The VAR room clealry showed to the referee it was offside. Are you saying it was not clear?

Of course it does. The goalkeeper, none of the defenders bar Ramos (standard for him anyway) put his arms up for offside, all the other players from both teams presumed it was a goal, celebrated, headed back to centre circle.

Nope. I said it wasn’t obvious offside and if it was all of the above wouldn’t have happened. Tbh I can’t remember last time a ref was shown the offside call, they usually just tell him. The issue was whether the Valencia played touched it or not.

JamDav1982 · Jun 21, 2020

Vilarrubi said:
Of course it does. The goalkeeper, none of the defenders bar Ramos (standard for him anyway) put his arms up for offside, all the other players from both teams presumed it was a goal, celebrated, headed back to centre circle.

Nope. I said it wasn’t obvious offside and if it was all of the above wouldn’t have happened. Tbh I can’t remember last time a ref was shown the offside call, they usually just tell him. The issue was whether the Valencia played touched it or not.

In Spain can VAR even make a decision without alerting referee?

Either way have seen plenty of plainly obvious offiside/penalty/red card calls that they refer for review so it does not mean at all that much.

Players have far less a clue for most decisions that would think and they most likely did expect goal to be given once linesman does not flag.

Once replayed it was clear was offside and in now way debateable.

Vilarrubi · Jun 21, 2020

JamDav1982 said:
In Spain can VAR even make a decision without alerting referee?

Either way have seen plenty of plainly obvious offiside/penalty/red card calls that they refer for review so it does not mean at all that much.

Players have far less a clue for most decisions that would think and they most likely did expect goal to be given once linesman does not flag.

Of course everything has to go through ref. But why would refs opinion on offside mean more than VAR when VAR is meant to work offside out on multiple screens with multiple people looking at it. Obviously for tackles/challenges it’s more opinion based.

I haven’t seen that many obvious ones go to VAR at all tbh, not in La Liga anyway.

JamDav1982 · Jun 21, 2020

Vilarrubi said:
Of course everything has to go through ref. But why would refs opinion on offside mean more than VAR when VAR is meant to work offside out on multiple screens with multiple people looking at it. Obviously for tackles/challenges it’s more opinion based.

I haven’t that many obvious ones go to VAR at all tbh, not in La Liga anyway.

So VAR cant decide it was offside and have to alert the referee either way to decide decision is wrong?

That is my understanding of how works in La Liga. VAR is only there to advise not decide.

It is also only to be used for 'clear and obvious' mistakes by onfield officials or to allow them to review.

Vilarrubi · Jun 21, 2020

JamDav1982 said:
So VAR cant decide it was offside and have to alert the referee either way to decide decision is wrong?

That is my understanding of how works in La Liga. VAR is only there to advise not decide.

It is also only to be used for 'clear and obvious' mistakes by onfield officials or to allow them to review.

But in what instances does the ref have to go look at an offside, off the top of my head I can’t remember, I might be wrong. But the fact he did have to go look at it means it wasn’t clear offside as you’re making out.

El Gato · Jun 21, 2020

JamDav1982 said:
So VAR cant decide it was offside and have to alert the referee either way to decide decision is wrong?

That is my understanding of how works in La Liga. VAR is only there to advise not decide.

It is also only to be used for 'clear and obvious' mistakes by onfield officials or to allow them to review.

No. They can rule out a goal straight up with calling the ref over to the monitor.

I thought the VAR intervention here and why ref was called over is to consult whether the offside player has influenced the move or not.

JamDav1982 · Jun 21, 2020

Vilarrubi said:
But in what instances does the ref have to go look at an offside, off the top of my head I can’t remember, I might be wrong. But the fact he did have to go look at it means it wasn’t clear offside as you’re making out.

Do you think VAR can make decision on offside when officials have made a mistake?

The definition of VAR is that is should be applied when clear and obvious mistake.

You seem to think unless VAR overrules referee it is a close decision they wont rule on. I dont think that is the case in Spain.

JamDav1982 · Jun 21, 2020

Wolfe said:
No. They can rule out a goal straight up with calling the ref over to the monitor.

I thought the VAR intervention here and why ref was called over is to consult whether the offside player has influenced the move or not.

Aye but either way VAR cant make the decision for referee in Spain was my understanding and if they detect and error they alert official to have a look.

Could be wrong and either way the instruction to use VAR is when clear and obvious error.

El Gato · Jun 21, 2020

JamDav1982 said:
Aye but either way VAR cant make the decision for referee in Spain was my understanding and if they detect and error they alert official to have a look.

Not with offsides they don't AFAIK. They've ruled out many a goal only by telling the ref whether it was off or not before the play was resumed and he just went by the word from the truck.

Vilarrubi · Jun 21, 2020

JamDav1982 said:
Do you think VAR can make decision on offside when officials have made a mistake?

The definition of VAR is that is should be applied when clear and obvious mistake.

You seem to think unless VAR overrules referee it is a close decision they wont rule on. I dont think that is the case in Spain.

Not sure what you mean. My understanding of what happened in Madrid game is ref/linesman presumed it was a goal, VAR was checking while players headed back. VAR notified ref of offside/interference of Valencia player, asked the ref to look at it, then goal was overturned. What I’m saying is, how often do you see refs going to look at offside calls on the monitor, I can’t think of the last time. Maybe it’s a common occurrence, but i haven’t noticed.

El Gato · Jun 21, 2020

Vilarrubi said:
What I’m saying is, how often do you see refs going to look at offside calls on the monitor, I can’t think of the last time. Maybe it’s a common occurrence, but i haven’t noticed.

Yh it's not that common. They reluctantly flag up contentious calls to preserve refs first decision integrity I think, only ever use it for reds, mistaken identity and very dubious penalties etc. But I don't know the protocol off by heart either.

JamDav1982 · Jun 21, 2020

Vilarrubi said:
Not sure what you mean. My understanding of what happened in Madrid game is ref/linesman presumed it was a goal, VAR was checking while players headed back. VAR notified ref of offside/interference of Valencia player, asked the ref to look at it, then goal was overturned. What I’m saying is, how often do you see refs going to look at offside calls on the monitor, I can’t think of the last time. Maybe it’s a common occurrence, but i haven’t noticed.

I am sure they said in La Liga that VAR is only there to advise and not make decisions. Could be wrong and they were giving off about it allowing referees to make more correct decisions on review.

Is there an example of VAR making a decision without consulting referee in Spain?

JamDav1982 · Jun 21, 2020

Wolfe said:
Not with offsides they don't AFAIK. They've ruled out many a goal only by telling the ref whether it was off or not before the play was resumed and he just went by the word from the truck.

Do you have an example of a goal they have done for when officials had initially made a mistake?

Puzzled now as always thought in La Liga VAR was there to advise only and had to refer if error made. Maybe not.

El Gato · Jun 21, 2020

This here is how it usually goes for offsides.

All they do is watch for a potential and ask the ref to hold off resuming until they make sure everything has gone OK. Quite frequently the effect was the opposite i.e. goal was called off for offside as well.

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