Real Madrid

The thing is Zidane has no clear idea of how they'll play. All these formations he's tried out has only been minimally tested.
Experimenting with a totally new formation towards the end of the pre-season is very weird as no big conclusions can be drawn out of it, other than knowing it needs time to be effective.

Even Valverde managed the pre-season better than Zidane.
Mixing starters with bench players and youngsters during the first games and in the last trying to make the team cohesive by playing a similar lineup to what we'll see vs Athletic.

How will Zidane line up against Celta? He probably doesn't know as there's no clear solution.

Wolfe said:

It's obvious he has a clear plan of having a very flexible team who can play in multiple formations suited for many scenarios.

Everything is going as expected TBH. Defensive solidity with a relatively old midfield core without a mobile vertical player doesn't come after 5 games of preseason. Pogba deal went dead so they're likely looking at alternatives, trying to sweettalk Levy to dropping price for Eriksen and if that doesn't happen Van de Beek is likely to be the choice. And Zidane always prefers to outscore the opponent than get 2-0s.

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Madrid will be lucky to finish 4th this season.

5 games of preseason? He is at the helm for 5 months already. Other than Hazard the Real Madrid starting eleven hasn't changed either.

Andresito said:

Even Valverde managed the pre-season better than Zidane.
Mixing starters with bench players and youngsters during the first games and in the last trying to make the team cohesive by playing a similar lineup to what we'll see vs Athletic

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Erh no. Valverde is just the polar opposite; he doesn't experiment. He'd probably just mix and match a couple of players for his usual 4231/flat 442. Everything stays the same, no new formation, no proper 433, absolutely nothing, even for the first few games.

For Valverde, preseason is just a consolation for youngsters which we'll probably never ever see again once the season starts.

Zidane is probably desperate because of the recent trashings and yeah he probably shouldn't try something drastically different a week before.

It just shows how INCREDIBLE Ronaldo's influence on Real Madrid was.

The entire team, manager, directive and president are all exposed after he left.

Just think of that, a single player covered up every flaw the entire structure of the club had.

Unbelievable player.

Poor_Sunyol said:

Madrid will be lucky to finish 4th this season.

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just sit and watch

Poor_Sunyol said:

Madrid will be lucky to finish 4th this season.

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They were abysmal last season too and still comfortably reached the 3rd place.

I just read this article on marca (shame on me) about Joao Felix's insane numbers in pre season and thought what shit teams they were playing when they win games 7-3. Nevermind.

Vilarrubi said:

Everything's going as planned though.

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Never been said or implied my dude.

Poor_Sunyol said:

Madrid will be lucky to finish 4th this season.

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Surely they will. With Barca and Atletico definite top 4s you've got Sevilla and Valencia on paper as the other two. Just can't see them both keeping Madrid out of the top 4.

Andresito said:

The thing is Zidane has no clear idea of how they'll play. All these formations he's tried out has only been minimally tested.
Experimenting with a totally new formation towards the end of the pre-season is very weird as no big conclusions can be drawn out of it, other than knowing it needs time to be effective.

Even Valverde managed the pre-season better than Zidane.
Mixing starters with bench players and youngsters during the first games and in the last trying to make the team cohesive by playing a similar lineup to what we'll see vs Athletic.

How will Zidane line up against Celta? He probably doesn't know as there's no clear solution.

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You're looking for systematic development of a new style from a manager who a) played as a free-electron for 5+ years, b) employed 3 different formations depending on the needs of the game in his previous stint with the club, c) hates like-for-like substitutions and prefers instead to change the formation altogether whenever he brings on people of different strengths? The latter is arguably the most important point because when you look at almost every single position, no 2 players used in vaguely similar areas of the pitch are of the same profile. Nowhere.

I don't see why it matters other than for clarity's sake. We will see what happens down the line. I suspect we will play the same old 4-3-3 and change that by inserting Valverde/Isco/James into the centre + Bale on the right depending on how shit Modrić, Lucas and Casemiro look. If #10s and fullbacks show offensive sharpness, we'll likely go to a diamond and insert Jović.

Zidane doesn't care for systems. Don't know why this is the main critique at this point. It's not as if the entire squad is confused. Most are either leggy or fat given that Bale looks the best of them all. I think only Carvajal and Casemiro are downright wank on an individual level.

Fired by November and Jose back.

Wolfe said:

You're looking for systematic development of a new style from a manager who a) played as a free-electron for 5+ years, b) employed 3 different formations depending on the needs of the game in his previous stint with the club, c) hates like-for-like substitutions and prefers instead to change the formation altogether whenever he brings on people of different strengths? The latter is arguably the most important point because when you look at almost every single position, no 2 players used in vaguely similar areas of the pitch are of the same profile. Nowhere.

I don't see why it matters other than for clarity's sake. We will see what happens down the line. I suspect we will play the same old 4-3-3 and change that by inserting Valverde/Isco/James into the centre + Bale on the right depending on how shit Modrić, Lucas and Casemiro look. If #10s and fullbacks show offensive sharpness, we'll likely go to a diamond and insert Jović.

Zidane doesn't care for systems. Don't know why this is the main critique at this point. It's not as if the entire squad is confused. Most are either leggy or fat given that Bale looks the best of them all. I think only Carvajal and Casemiro are downright wank on an individual level.

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Yes that's exactly what I'm looking for and that's what Madrid should be looking for as well. It's time for a generational change and what Zidane "has always done" won't work this time.

What Zidane has at the moment with this Madrid team is:
1. A whole lot of formations to choose from, but no formation that's cohesive.
2. Young players that need to adapt and take the next step.
3. No real playing style. His last stint was cross cross cross, Lopetegui tried more possession. Zidane at the moment is in no man's land.

I said it when he was appointed, he's a great motivator but a very mediocre tactician. He developed around as many players as Valverde, which is close to 0.

There were talks about a revolution before this season, but so far it looks like the same shitty Madrid team that ended last season embarrassingly.
Zidane won't last long.

Andresito said:

Yes that's exactly what I'm looking for and that's what Madrid should be looking for as well. It's time for a generational change and what Zidane "has always done" won't work this time.

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I'm sorry, is the generational change not happening? Did you miss him trying to get Pogba/Eriksen/VDB? Or Mendy coming in? Or Militao to eventually replace Ramos? He asked for those + Jović first, while also getting Hazard to supplement the goals. He is still waiting for the midfielder.

It's as if to you 'generational change' means what you want to see happen in Barcelona i.e. ageing starters getting binned on the spot.

1. A whole lot of formations to choose from, but no formation that's cohesive.
2. Young players that need to adapt and take the next step.
3. No real playing style. His last stint was cross cross cross, Lopetegui tried more possession. Zidane at the moment is in no man's land.

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4-3-3 is cohesive. Diamond is cohesive. Unless of course you go and look at it through goal difference glasses... Take out a few ageing personnel and it should be fine. The 3+2 formation is new so naturally it'll be worse, but has potential to be very good. It worked perfectly on at least 1 occasion this past season.
Also who gives a fuck if it was cross cross cross? Using crosses against low-blocks is a natural go to weapon, particularly when you have the best off-the-ball forward of all-time like Ronaldo who is almost a guarantee of 1 goal per game from those crosses. Another reason this didn't work better was because Perez refused to buy-in a forward that every manager since Ancelotti asked for. Total system-craving-Cule type of outlook to make it sound like it's a bad thing.

Either way, judging cohesion of new lineups with new players after 8 games of preseason when squad is not complete...

He developed around as many players as Valverde, which is close to 0.

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Results of his work with under 23s show he's not much of a coach, sure. Or at least he wasn't until now. Then again, this kind of thing doesn't happen overnight and he may be one of those who only develops the players he specifically trusts or asks for (see Casemiro, Varane or Asensio). Seems not to have a good connection with the generation of Spaniards that came through. Too bad. Doesn't mean he's the wrong man for the job.

There were talks about a revolution before this season

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Dunno how you expected the revolution to manifest itself. Bringing CKM together was revolutionary, he's basically responsible for putting together the 2nd best midfield trio of this century.

You're the king of soundbites so no surprise you cling to them and bounce them back while announcing project is failed before the season even began, but there's a bit of nuance really.

Zidane will be finally exposed even with 300M plus in signings, no amount of voodoo is going to get him to demonstrate he can actually build a team. There are parallels to Ancelotti but I believe the Italian is actually a better overall manager/coach