Ronald Koeman

Messi983

Senior Member

Fixed one wing and then damaged the other.

I was worried that he was going to play Griezmann as a RW right after the second/ third? friendly game. Does not look good.

I'd like to see how Griezmann will look with Dest and/or Pjanić (preferably both) playing on the right side instead of Roberto and Busi. Won't give up on him before that as I think they are a big reason why he's underperforming. Obviously alongside him being too isolated and Messi and the rest of the team mostly ignoring him even when he makes some good runs. It's still very early though. Players need to understand each other movements in this more fluid/dynamic system (compared to previous years) and it will take time.

I'm ok with us attacking mostly down the left side but we can't have 80-90% attacks there and the rest through the middle with zero action on the right. We should at least find some balance like having 50-60% attacks on the left, 20-25% in the middle and 20-25% down the right flank. If we can do that we'll be less predictable and I think Griezmann will also be more involved and start to play better.
 

khaled_a_d

Senior Member
Right now we have a huge problem and that is our midfield. What is worse is that the midfielders aren't the problem:

We play with 2 or 3 midfielders, but when we are pressed we will be always out numbered and lose midfield battle for most part. This isn't an issue when a team of Villarreal caliber try it, we will beat them easily like we did twice since Covid. But a team of Seville caliber will cause troubles, a team like Bayern/Liverpool will eat us alive.

I only see 3 solutions for this:

-Press hard when we lose the ball, while tiki-take your way with the ball from box to box. This is almost impossible, only teams who were able to do that was Barca Pep and I am not sure that even this team will be able to do it in 2020.

-Play highline and push the team to be more intact: Great game plan if you have speed in defense, especially in CB. But doing it against top speed teams with Pique & Lenglet will be asking for trouble.

-Have quick attackers: Simply punish a team who tries to press you with counter attack. Problem is when your quickest starting attacker is Fati, no team will care enough and you will fail to make such counters.


Elite teams like Bayern and Liverpool have both last 2 options, and IMO this is the way to go. We have quick FBs but not CB, we have zero quickness in our attack

Without those options we will always suffer against teams that are pressing us, because there is no outlets for midfield in attack or even defensive coverage. Koeman against Seville tried to fix solution with adding another 2 midfielders in Pjanic and Pedri but number of midfielders isn't the problem. It is how the midfielders get support from the rest of the team
 
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FC433

New member
I'd like to see how Griezmann will look with Dest and/or Pjanić (preferably both) playing on the right side instead of Roberto and Busi. Won't give up on him before that as I think they are a big reason why he's underperforming. Obviously alongside him being too isolated and Messi and the rest of the team mostly ignoring him even when he makes some good runs. It's still very early though. Players need to understand each other movements in this more fluid/dynamic system (compared to previous years) and it will take time.

I'm ok with us attacking mostly down the left side but we can't have 80-90% attacks there and the rest through the middle with zero action on the right. We should at least find some balance like having 50-60% attacks on the left, 20-25% in the middle and 20-25% down the right flank. If we can do that we'll be less predictable and I think Griezmann will also be more involved and start to play better.

You make very good points. I would like to note that I rate Griezmann and I still think he is one of the best-attacking players in the world. However, he is not a winger and playing him there to chase opponents is very insulting and annoying. I do not think they are intentionally ignoring him, it is more that Messi cannot make right passes because he is a left-footed player. The other players are not used to make such passes, unfortunately.

I agree with you. We need to balance our attack, but how? Messi dedicates how we attack and he will always prefer the left side.
 

Porque

Senior Member
The solution is for the AMC to be the third midfielder without possession like a 433 (of course you could argue we will sometimes get caught in the transition which is true- but against elite teams that will happen with any formation.

Coutinho so far is doing well, but this is also where the Wijnaldum profile comes in. In any case when Koeman moved de Jong to AMC in the Sevilla game it was precisely to replicate this. And I think in the final 10 minutes we were more dangerous than Sevilla but lacked the efficiency of the wings.

This is the jist of it, to attack and defend as a hard working unit- Messi.

The Madrid-Juve matches will tell us much on where we stand. I think the Celta match took too much out of us to make conclusive decisions from Sevilla 1-1.
 

FC433

New member
Right now we have a huge problem and that is our midfield. What is worse is that the midfielders aren't the problem:

We play with 2 or 3 midfielders, but when we are pressed we will be always out numbered and lose midfield battle for most part. This isn't an issue when a team of Villarreal caliber try it, we will beat them easily like we did twice since Covid. But a team of Seville caliber will cause troubles, a team like Bayern/Liverpool will eat us alive.

I only see 3 solutions for this:

-Press hard when we lose the ball, while tiki-take your way with the ball from box to box. This is almost impossible, only teams who were able to do that was Barca Pep and I am not sure that even this team will be able to do it in 2020.

-Play highline and push the team to be more intact: Great game plan if you have speed in defense, especially in CB. But doing it against top speed teams with Pique & Lenglet will be asking for trouble.

-Have quick attackers: Simply punish a team who tries to press you with counter attack. Problem is when your quickest starting attacker is Fati, no team will care enough and you will fail to make such counters.


Elite teams like Bayern and Liverpool have both last 2 options, and IMO this is the way to go. We have quick FBs but not CB, we have zero quickness in our attack

Without those options we will always suffer against teams that are pressing us, because there is no outlets for midfield in attack or even defensive coverage. Koeman against Seville tried to fix solution with adding another 2 midfielders in Pjanic and Pedri but number of midfielders isn't the problem. It is how the midfielders get support from the rest of the team
Ideally, you want to have 1) a proper attacking-structure (= fast + can dribble to pose enough threat), and 2) a controlling-midfielder (to breathe and reorganize/ Xavi/ Thiago/ Arthur/ Verratti) to minimize pressure.
 

Riordon

New member
Great post Khales. I have talked about point 3 being our main issue for almost 2 years now. We cant get out. No player in the squad can fix this currently. Dembele has the speed but doesn?t run in behind. Fati intelligent enough to do it but not fast enough over bigger distances. This must be our priority number 1 in the upcoming market, this is why Depay is the wrong attacker to go for. Lautaro the same.

As I see it midfield is good enough. Defense also (we need just one leader at the back who is also fast, your point 2) and two attackers. Then we are back.

We had the winning formula forwards who run in behind with Etoo/Giuly, Etoo/Henry, Villa/Pedri, Suarez/Neymar and one creator (Messi/Ronaldinho). Dont know why we suddenly went for these slow associative attackers instead.
 
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serghei

Senior Member
Right now we have a huge problem and that is our midfield. What is worse is that the midfielders aren't the problem:

We play with 2 or 3 midfielders, but when we are pressed we will be always out numbered and lose midfield battle for most part. This isn't an issue when a team of Villarreal caliber try it, we will beat them easily like we did twice since Covid. But a team of Seville caliber will cause troubles, a team like Bayern/Liverpool will eat us alive.

I only see 3 solutions for this:

-Press hard when we lose the ball, while tiki-take your way with the ball from box to box. This is almost impossible, only teams who were able to do that was Barca Pep and I am not sure that even this team will be able to do it in 2020.

-Play highline and push the team to be more intact: Great game plan if you have speed in defense, especially in CB. But doing it against top speed teams with Pique & Lenglet will be asking for trouble.

-Have quick attackers: Simply punish a team who tries to press you with counter attack. Problem is when your quickest starting attacker is Fati, no team will care enough and you will fail to make such counters.


Elite teams like Bayern and Liverpool have both last 2 options, and IMO this is the way to go. We have quick FBs but not CB, we have zero quickness in our attack

Without those options we will always suffer against teams that are pressing us, because there is no outlets for midfield in attack or even defensive coverage. Koeman against Seville tried to fix solution with adding another 2 midfielders in Pjanic and Pedri but number of midfielders isn't the problem. It is how the midfielders get support from the rest of the team

Good post.

Liverpool and Bayern press hard after losing the ball. It's no surprise that they are the best team in the world.

High line + pressing hard go hand in hand. When you press, to keep the distance between the lines short, and compact, this translates all the way to the backline who plays 20-30m. higher than usual.

Also, for the last point, you need way more than just quick attackers.

Liverpool and Bayern can be best described as 1) from your list. Pushing up and pressing hard is what they do best off the ball, the main part of their success (no wonder Klopp's Gegenpressing is so talked about). For this, you do need fast players with great stamina. No wonder both Liverpool and Bayern are very strong physically.

Bayern's and Liverpool's front line are incredibly dedicated to working hard and pressing constantly. Remember how many balls Stegen passed straight to the opponent because he was pressed to death. Or the mistakes we made on Anfield because we were constantly under pressure from Liverpool.

Tiki-taka-ing our way form box to box is, indeed, near impossible without all time great players at their peaks. But pressing as a well-drilled unit deep in the opponent's half is THE go to tactic both defensively, and offensively.
 
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Fati_Future_BallonDor

Well-known member
It looks like Koeman does what his two previous predecessors have done; tinkering with the squad without a larger vision. It seems like he has no guts to truly restructure the team and is making another set of safe, opportunistic decisions. On top of it all he does not seem to know the players enough to make well informed decisions. The latest move to exclude Riqui Puig, arguably the best, most promising midfielder that Barca has, is absurdly self sabotaging. What a terrible decision for the club to start his tenure with. It becomes apparent that Koeman is not going to last past this season but lets see.
 

serghei

Senior Member
It looks like Koeman does what his two previous predecessors have done; tinkering with the squad without a larger vision. It seems like he has no guts to truly restructure the team and is making another set of safe, opportunistic decisions. On top of it all he does not seem to know the players enough to make well informed decisions. The latest move to exclude Riqui Puig, arguably the best, most promising midfielder that Barca has, is absurdly self sabotaging. What a terrible decision for the club to start his tenure with. It becomes apparent that Koeman is not going to last past this season but lets see.

It's not about guts, it's about knowledge. Koeman has guts, but, so far, I'm not too impressed about the way he sees the restructuring of the team. It's still very early though.
 

.blitzer

Member
It looks like Koeman does what his two previous predecessors have done; tinkering with the squad without a larger vision. It seems like he has no guts to truly restructure the team and is making another set of safe, opportunistic decisions. On top of it all he does not seem to know the players enough to make well informed decisions. The latest move to exclude Riqui Puig, arguably the best, most promising midfielder that Barca has, is absurdly self sabotaging. What a terrible decision for the club to start his tenure with. It becomes apparent that Koeman is not going to last past this season but lets see.
Shit financial situation of the club during a pandemic where all clubs were hit hardly is the worst time to restructure.
 

Andresito

Senior Member
Staff member
It's not about guts, it's about knowledge. Koeman has guts, but, so far, I'm not too impressed about the way he sees the restructuring of the team. It's still very early though.

That's the way I see it as well. He's like Lucho, he has his ideas and is willing to implement them, but it might not be the best ideas.
 

Horatio

You're welcome
It's not about guts, it's about knowledge. Koeman has guts, but, so far, I'm not too impressed about the way he sees the restructuring of the team. It's still very early though.

lol Koeman is one of the more tactical adept coaches out there.
 

Neeraj

Senior Member
lol Koeman is one of the more tactical adept coaches out there.

Neither his time at Valencia nor Everton has shown that so far. With the dutch team, I didn't particularly see any tactical masterclass either - it was the dutch youngsters doing what do well, run, press, crisp passing, etc. That doesn't mean he cannot be successful at Barcelona, but that statement is from out of the blue given his track record so far.
 

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