Quique Setien

[serghei]

Also, a team of mostly hard-working players and a few talented ones UNDER a great manager is more fun to watch than a team UNDER an insipid manager with superstars (usually washed up).

I'd much prefer the Liverpool of 17/18 or the current Bayern setup than our one. Or even RM's.

No doubt. Plus that the good players will get better under a better manager. Liverpool is the best example. The players they have now are not the same as the ones from 3 years ago.

I think Madrid with Zidane are middle way between us and the likes of Liverpool/Bayern. Our game is concentrated to the highest degree on the names in the team. Madrid's is middle ground, and Liverpool and Bayern depend the least on individuals. No wonder Liverpool beat us 4-0 with Shaquiri and Origi. Their game didn't decline too much from losing 2 of their best players in offense.

 

[KingLeo10]

I think Madrid with Zidane are middle way between us and the likes of Liverpool/Bayern. Our game is concentrated to the highest degree on the names in the team. Madrid's is middle ground, and Liverpool and Bayern depend the least on individuals. No wonder Liverpool beat us 4-0 with Shaquiri and Origi. Their game didn't decline too much from losing 2 of their best players in offense.

Agree totally regarding the last bit.

Our approach to counter-attacks since 2017 infuriates me to no end. Our superstars basically allow the other team to gather themselves and set back up, before trying an inefficient attempt that doesn't even result in a shot on goal. A proper manager would have sorted this behavior a long time ago as it costs us "easy" goal opportunities in away games against even the likes of Roma.

With Klopp's system, the drop from Sane and Mane to Shaquiri and Origi is only efficiency of shot. Not much else. All four execute Klopp's system to the tee.

 

[Tackle]

Pep was a genius and it was apparent before we got him. It wasn't just lucky appointment. We chose him over a serial winner at the time in Mourinho. Lucho is a former Barca legend and was always a fighter and a professional on the pitch. And he had some experience. They had some serious things going for them.

Others were bad appointments, with few accomplishments at this level, and with very few connections with Barca in general. And it showed in many ways. We've been able to win titles despite these lesser managers because we had a set of highly skilled players, generational players like Messi, Iniesta, Suarez, Alves and others. World class individuals above the level of other sides.

But now this is coming to an end, and more than ever we need that A quality on the managerial seat. To be able to rebuild this team. You won't ever do it with guys like Valverde or Setien.

We do NEED a top manager. That is not something anybody is disputing. But how likely is it we go after an already established world class manager?

Last big name we landed was Van Gaal. That was 20 years ago and I don't think we would have even went for him if he wasn't Dutch and we didn't just recently have a very successful period under Cruyff.

When we go after managers they usually fall under one of 3 branches:

1. Dutch/Ajax connection (Cruyff, LVG, Rijkaard)
2. Former Barca player/legend (EV, Lucho, Pep)
3. Random hire fluent in Spanish (Setien, Tata, Antic)

New board would have to be revolutionary for them to suddenly start gunning for the top hires.

 

[serghei]

Agree totally regarding the last bit.

Our approach to counter-attacks since 2017 infuriates me to no end. Our superstars basically allow the other team to gather themselves and set back up, before trying an inefficient attempt that doesn't even result in a shot on goal. A proper manager would have sorted this behavior a long time ago as it costs us "easy" goal opportunities in away games against even the likes of Roma.

With Klopp's system, the drop from Sane and Mane to Shaquiri and Origi is only efficiency of shot. Not much else. All four execute Klopp's system to the tee.

You need speed and energy to run on counters. If you lack that... well... of course you can't counter well. Messi and Suarez are to blame for our poor counter attacking game. They slow down the game because they are old and they are more comfortable on lower rhythm.

 

[khaled_a_d]

You need speed and energy to run on counters. If you lack that... well... of course you can't counter well. Messi and Suarez are to blame for our poor counter attacking game. They slow down the game because they are old and they are more comfortable on lower rhythm.

Yeah, Dembele actually has shown we can do counter attacks when we have speed, goal against Spurs, Chelsea or wasted chances against Liverpool.
We lack athletic ability outside of of our fullbacks

 

[Gaudi]

No doubt. Plus that the good players will get better under a better manager. Liverpool is the best example. The players they have now are not the same as the ones from 3 years ago.

I think Madrid with Zidane are middle way between us and the likes of Liverpool/Bayern. Our game is concentrated to the highest degree on the names in the team. Madrid's is middle ground, and Liverpool and Bayern depend the least on individuals. No wonder Liverpool beat us 4-0 with Shaquiri and Origi. Their game didn't decline too much from losing 2 of their best players in offense.

Exactly, we are bunch of individuals waiting for Messi magic, that's way we want someone like Ney back or why WC players look meh in our setup.

 

[MTL_Barca]

We do NEED a top manager. That is not something anybody is disputing. But how likely is it we go after an already established world class manager?

Last big name we landed was Van Gaal. That was 20 years ago and I don't think we would have even went for him if he wasn't Dutch and we didn't just recently have a very successful period under Cruyff.

When we go after managers they usually fall under one of 3 branches:

1. Dutch/Ajax connection (Cruyff, LVG, Rijkaard)
2. Former Barca player/legend (EV, Lucho, Pep)
3. Random hire fluent in Spanish (Setien, Tata, Antic)

New board would have to be revolutionary for them to suddenly start gunning for the top hires.

Tbf there aren't a lot of top managers to begin with, even less when you mix in language skills, playstyle and availability. I mean just right now who would even be generally considered a manager of the highest standards besides Pep and Klopp? Zidane i guess? Simeone, Poch, Allegri...these are already debatable. I'd even say there is no truly fitting and realistically available "big name" coach for Barca to get at the moment.

Finding the right coach is difficult and big names fail a lot too so getting a successful and proven coach that ticks all the boxes is probably not much easier than lucking out with another Pep. Barca aims for a unique style so i don't think hiring on different criteria is a problem and its not like other teams have a way better record of signing coaches anyway, everyone is suffering from the lack of available world class coaches. I mean it wouldn't hurt to get away from.just the 3 things you pointed out but in general i don't think it's generally bad to go for smaller names.

 

[serghei]

Tbf there aren't a lot of top managers to begin with, even less when you mix in language skills, playstyle and availability. I mean just right now who would even be generally considered a manager of the highest standards besides Pep and Klopp? Zidane i guess? Simeone, Poch, Allegri...these are already debatable. I'd even say there is no truly fitting and realistically available "big name" coach for Barca to get at the moment.

Finding the right coach is difficult and big names fail a lot too so getting a successful and proven coach that ticks all the boxes is probably not much easier than lucking out with another Pep. Barca aims for a unique style so i don't think hiring on different criteria is a problem and its not like other teams have a way better record of signing coaches anyway, everyone is suffering from the lack of available world class coaches. I mean it wouldn't hurt to get away from.just the 3 things you pointed out but in general i don't think it's generally bad to go for smaller names.

Pursuing a manager can't be done in months. It's a long affair.

Of course, fame and knowledge don't always go hand in hand, and you can find the next best manager with an unproven name. Pochettino, Pep, Zidane, Klopp, all of these were unproven before they got their chance.

Klopp at Mainz wasn't a top name, exloded at Dortmund. Mourinho before Porto was an unknown name, exploded at Porto in 2003-2004. Pep before Barca was unknown outside of the club, Zidane at Madrid was totally un-experienced at this level. Simeone at Atletico again, came from South America and was unproven in Europe.

We either have to go after the biggest names, like Pep, Klopp and 2-3 others, or find an unproven but highly skilled manager, back him full on, and propel him in that category, for a win-win situation. Going for the best is very hard, because the best don't just float around waiting for you to grab them, but are tied to long contracts.

Instead, we're going after 2nd rate C level managers, who lack key things to make it in that category in the future.

Being famous or proven, or tested is a plus, but skill and knowledge are everything (not only skill in tactics, but skill in social interaction, charisma, all of that which is related to leadership, because all elite managers are leaders). We need guys in charge who are able to recognize that.

 

[MTL_Barca]

in the future.
Being famous or proven, or tested is a plus, but skill and knowledge are everything (not only skill in tactics, but skill in social interaction, charisma, all of that which is related to leadership, because all elite managers are leaders). We need guys in charge who are able to recognize that.

Yeah, seems like the scouting is just way too surface level with the current board. As you listed a lot of managers were able to function on the highest level right away when coming from smaller teams so it's not like we have to wait for someone blowing up but at the same time playing kinda eye-pleasing football or being at the club as a player alone just isn't enough.

Honestly i don't see us getting success with a "big name" anytime soon (unless Pep returns, but that's probably not gonna happen) so it's about finding the right choice between the unproven/inexperienced guys. With the squad rebuild that is inevitable at this point the timing also couldn't be better for that, we can't have veteran players running the club for much longer no matter who is coaching them anyway.

 

[serghei]

Yeah, seems like the scouting is just way too surface level with the current board. As you listed a lot of managers were able to function on the highest level right away when coming from smaller teams so it's not like we have to wait for someone blowing up but at the same time playing kinda eye-pleasing football or being at the club as a player alone just isn't enough.

Honestly i don't see us getting success with a "big name" anytime soon (unless Pep returns, but that's probably not gonna happen) so it's about finding the right choice between the unproven/inexperienced guys. With the squad rebuild that is inevitable at this point the timing also couldn't be better for that, we can't have veteran players running the club for much longer no matter who is coaching them anyway.

Guys in executive decisions don't do themselves things. They appoint people, and if they are crap at appointing and naming managers, technical directors and such, then this is how their incompetence is measured.

I personally liked how quick Madrid moved from Benitez, Lopetegui, Solari. It took them 6 months to see they didn't get the right man for their ambitions or their team. Even though maybe not one of those 3 was actually a terrible manager.

 

[Porque]

Real Madrid also finished 3rd in LaLiga last year, got knocked out in the CL 1/16 to Ajax and knocked out in LaCopa by us 4-1 on aggregate. For us that would be an unfathomable meltdown. For them it was just 2019.

 

[serghei]

Real Madrid also finished 3rd in LaLiga last year, got knocked out in the CL 1/16 to Ajax and knocked out in LaCopa by us 4-1 on aggregate. For us that would be an unfathomable meltdown. For them it was just 2019.

They've been very successful in CL. After 3 in a row they're allowed 2 crap seasons. Besides, them knocking out City is not that crazy either.

CL in the last decade:

Madrid 4 titles
Barca 2 titles
Chelsea 1 title
Bayern 1 title
Liverpool 1 title
Inter 1 title.

Madrid have been more successful than us since Pep left. Pep left 8 years ago. Time flies. We have to do something to get back on top. Same as Madrid actually. Neither is top 4 atm.

 

[Birdy]

We do NEED a top manager. That is not something anybody is disputing. But how likely is it we go after an already established world class manager?

Last big name we landed was Van Gaal. That was 20 years ago and I don't think we would have even went for him if he wasn't Dutch and we didn't just recently have a very successful period under Cruyff.

When we go after managers they usually fall under one of 3 branches:

1. Dutch/Ajax connection (Cruyff, LVG, Rijkaard)
2. Former Barca player/legend (EV, Lucho, Pep)
3. Random hire fluent in Spanish (Setien, Tata, Antic)

New board would have to be revolutionary for them to suddenly start gunning for the top hires.

Top managers right now available (1st tier): Pochetino.
Poch will not come, he was unofficially approached in January and diplomatically declined the possibility

Top managers (2nd tier) that might be available for Barca: Ten Haag.
He doesn't speak Spanish or Catalan though, and he will be burnt by the Amigos just like Setien

Best realistic option: Someone who is not a top manager, but can reinstate discipline in the dressing room.
Who can that person be??

 

[Porque]

They've been very successful in CL. After 3 in a row they're allowed 2 crap seasons. Besides, them knocking out City is not that crazy either.

CL in the last decade:

Madrid 4 titles
Barca 2 titles
Chelsea 1 title
Bayern 1 title
Liverpool 1 title
Inter 1 title.

Madrid have been more successful than us since Pep left. Pep left 8 years ago. Time flies. We have to do something to get back on top. Same as Madrid actually. Neither is top 4 atm.

Yeah, if they fail, they fail hard and quick then regenerate. One thing they have (which we don't) is the PR machine which backs this process and gets fans exciting for "winning" the summer transfer market before the failed season is even completed.

Meanwhile we're getting destroyed for winning the league but going out in the CL semi. Amazing really.

 

[Barcilliant]

I'm hearing Bielsa rumours....