Garrus
New member
These type of posts, Are just fascinating to me.
I know asking this question is considered a bit of taboo, But i'll be a bit of maverick, And go ahead and ask it.
How long you four have been watching Futbol Club Barcelona?
Because when i see these types of comments, I have no choice but to form certain assumptions about the person making them, Like this person couldn't possibly have been around when we produced our glorious "football" with our "legendary" manager, Or if they did, They must either have some defects in their long term memory.
And to illustrate my point, I'll lay out some ground work on your behalf, Not putting words into your mouth, But they're just predictable answers
Who is best manager in FCB history, And embodies the "attacking philosophy" we proud of selves in, The "Anti-valverde" for guys like you? , You'll answer, Pep guardiola.
In which season we produced our most glorious football with him?, It's the 2010-2011 season.
So how about we take a little trip down memory lane and look at our lovely pep, In our most glorious season, And in la liga specifically.
Levante 1-2 FC Barcelona, January 2011
So here we are, Leading 2-0, Inside the amazing camp nou, According to our forum and twitter experts, This is the part where we should be attacking, Make it 3-0, And seal the deal, I mean who is coward enough, To try and hold a 2-0 lead against levante inside our own stadium?, OH MY GOD!, Pep substitutes bojan for seydou keita at the 65th minute, I'm lost for words, And disaster!, Levante make it 2-1 at the 80th, And we finished all of our substitutions, And left scrambling like headless chickens until the end, Pep saved by the whistle, But let's not be too hard on him, Maybe it was a one time thing.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-levante-ud/
Getafe 1-2 FC Barcelona, March 2011
This is my favorite, Here we are two months later after that levante game, And we're in camp nou, AGAIN, Leading 2-0, AGAIN, And i'm the sure great pep guardiola, Would not pull a 'valverde', AGAIN, And be a defensive chicken s**t that has nothing in common with our football 'philosophy', OH MY GOD, HE DID IT AGAIN, Bojan is replaced by Seydou Keita in the 68th minute,And AGAIN, Getafe make it 2-1 at the 88th minute, OH MY GOD, This failure of a manager never learns from his mistakes, Saved by the whistle, AGAIN, "Pathetic".
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-getafe-cf/
Villarreal 1-3 FC Barcelona, November 2010
Messi scored in the 58th minute, And made it 2-1, And we're in camp nou, AGAIN, The 'jesus' of our football philosophy, Would never do a 'cowardly' defensive sub in front of our own fans, HOLY S**t, He replaced David Villa by Seydou Keita in the 72th minute, MY WHOLE LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE!, Thankfully Messi scored AGAIN, And made it 3-1, His individual brilliance saved us from the coward, Defensive mentality of pep failure.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-villarreal-cf/
Atheltic Bilabo 1-2 FC Barcelona. February 2011
We barely made it 2-1 in the 78th minute. Thanks to the 'individual' brilliance of messi, That piece of s*um pep, Better not be thinking of holding the result, Go attack and make it 3-1, Because we're BARCA!!, OH GOD PLEASE KILL ME, He replaces David Villa with Seydou Keita in the 84th minute, STOP HOLDING THE RESULTS, WE'RE NOT A MID TABLE TEAM, Your Legacy is a SHAM!!.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-athletic-bilbao/
Sporting Gijon 0-1 FC Barcelona. September 2010
I'm emotionally drained by this point, Barely able to write, Devastated to realize that our shining example, Of attacking football, Turned to be, Defensive sub lover, That has no BALLS, But you know what, I'm a fighter, I'll continue exposing the fraud.
So we're leading 1-0, But this time it's different, we're away from camp nou and this is exactly where we need to hold the resu.............., I'm just kidding we're in the camp nou, Again, And i guess at this point, And at the surprise of no one reading this, That in the 70th minute, our attacker Bojan is replaced by **cking Javier **cking Mascherano, Spending the upcoming 20+ minutes, Clutching our straws, With a one goal lead, Against **cking Gijon, In **cking camp nou, Further proof, That demonstrate the collapse of the cruyff legacy.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-sporting-gijon/
Atletico Madrid 1-2 FC Barcelona, September 2010
Now this time, It's really outside of camp nou, I'm not kidding, I promise, Ok. The problem is, This is AM in 2010, They were as much as nuisance or a threat to us, As espanyol or levante right now, But what you gonna do, Once a "pathetic" "coward" manager, Always "pathetic" "Coward" manager, After relying on the individual brilliance of messi to score the first goal and assisting the second, With us barely hanging on our 1 goal lead for 45 minutes, Pep decides to retract into his turtle shell, And replaces David villa for se......., I'm not gonna bother.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-atletico-madrid-fc-barcelona/
So yeah, It seems, The great pep, Had quite the knack for holding the results, Inside our own stadium, Of all places, What's amazing about all of this, Is that i didn't have to pick and choose across different seasons and competitions to force some non-existent narrative that pep is defensive sub lover, This is the same squad, In same legendary season, And in the same competition, And i was able to pull 6 examples within minutes by skimming through the matches in that la liga campaign, And i'm sure there are more examples i missed.
In an ideal world, After being exposed to these undeniable, Objective Observation about pep guardiola, People like you four, Should reach one of two conclusions, Either you come to the realization that pep isn't the same as you imagined or remembered him to be, And he also becomes a "pathetic" and a "coward" manager in your eyes, Because he repeatedly defensive subs and settles for winning by a one goal lead, OR you come to the other conclusion (The sensible one, If i might add), That trying to hold or not holding a result, Has absolutely jack s**t to do with our football or philosophy, Nor it has anything to do with any coach 'mentality, And that it's simply a common sense in football, And that the only reason we see this absurd narrative, Is because people like you either haven't been around the guardiola days (Or Rijkaard, Enrique, Tito, Tata..) Or have a c**p for a memory, Please, Try to surprise me, And be sensible and logical.
But who am i kidding, This is the internet, What could possibly be worse than being exposed for your BS online, Your egos are probably too fragile to handle that, So i'm expecting multiple measure to weasel your way out of the embarrassing conundrum you put yourselves in, In fact, I'll go the extra step, And predict them, Based on the level of desperation, In ascending order:
1-Ignore this post and pretend you never saw it (touché)
2-Nitpicking
3-Changing goals posts and red herrings
4-Straw-man
5-Get defensive
Who knows, Maybe you do think pep is just as coward and pathetic as valverde after all, And in that case, The joke is one me, And you have all the right to laugh at me, For unnecessarily wasting my time writing this long post.
El Gato
Villarato!
[MENTION=2]Barcaman[/MENTION] how can this be pinned for future reference?These type of posts, Are just fascinating to me.
I know asking this question is considered a bit of taboo, But i'll be a bit of maverick, And go ahead and ask it.
How long you four have been watching Futbol Club Barcelona?
Because when i see these types of comments, I have no choice but to form certain assumptions about the person making them, Like this person couldn't possibly have been around when we produced our glorious "football" with our "legendary" manager, Or if they did, They must either have some defects in their long term memory.
And to illustrate my point, I'll lay out some ground work on your behalf, Not putting words into your mouth, But they're just predictable answers
Who is best manager in FCB history, And embodies the "attacking philosophy" we proud of selves in, The "Anti-valverde" for guys like you? , You'll answer, Pep guardiola.
In which season we produced our most glorious football with him?, It's the 2010-2011 season.
So how about we take a little trip down memory lane and look at our lovely pep, In our most glorious season, And in la liga specifically.
Levante 1-2 FC Barcelona, January 2011
So here we are, Leading 2-0, Inside the amazing camp nou, According to our forum and twitter experts, This is the part where we should be attacking, Make it 3-0, And seal the deal, I mean who is coward enough, To try and hold a 2-0 lead against levante inside our own stadium?, OH MY GOD!, Pep substitutes bojan for seydou keita at the 65th minute, I'm lost for words, And disaster!, Levante make it 2-1 at the 80th, And we finished all of our substitutions, And left scrambling like headless chickens until the end, Pep saved by the whistle, But let's not be too hard on him, Maybe it was a one time thing.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-levante-ud/
Getafe 1-2 FC Barcelona, March 2011
This is my favorite, Here we are two months later after that levante game, And we're in camp nou, AGAIN, Leading 2-0, AGAIN, And i'm the sure great pep guardiola, Would not pull a 'valverde', AGAIN, And be a defensive chicken s**t that has nothing in common with our football 'philosophy', OH MY GOD, HE DID IT AGAIN, Bojan is replaced by Seydou Keita in the 68th minute,And AGAIN, Getafe make it 2-1 at the 88th minute, OH MY GOD, This failure of a manager never learns from his mistakes, Saved by the whistle, AGAIN, "Pathetic".
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-getafe-cf/
Villarreal 1-3 FC Barcelona, November 2010
Messi scored in the 58th minute, And made it 2-1, And we're in camp nou, AGAIN, The 'jesus' of our football philosophy, Would never do a 'cowardly' defensive sub in front of our own fans, HOLY S**t, He replaced David Villa by Seydou Keita in the 72th minute, MY WHOLE LIFE HAS BEEN A LIE!, Thankfully Messi scored AGAIN, And made it 3-1, His individual brilliance saved us from the coward, Defensive mentality of pep failure.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-villarreal-cf/
Atheltic Bilabo 1-2 FC Barcelona. February 2011
We barely made it 2-1 in the 78th minute. Thanks to the 'individual' brilliance of messi, That piece of s*um pep, Better not be thinking of holding the result, Go attack and make it 3-1, Because we're BARCA!!, OH GOD PLEASE KILL ME, He replaces David Villa with Seydou Keita in the 84th minute, STOP HOLDING THE RESULTS, WE'RE NOT A MID TABLE TEAM, Your Legacy is a SHAM!!.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-athletic-bilbao/
Sporting Gijon 0-1 FC Barcelona. September 2010
I'm emotionally drained by this point, Barely able to write, Devastated to realize that our shining example, Of attacking football, Turned to be, Defensive sub lover, That has no BALLS, But you know what, I'm a fighter, I'll continue exposing the fraud.
So we're leading 1-0, But this time it's different, we're away from camp nou and this is exactly where we need to hold the resu.............., I'm just kidding we're in the camp nou, Again, And i guess at this point, And at the surprise of no one reading this, That in the 70th minute, our attacker Bojan is replaced by **cking Javier **cking Mascherano, Spending the upcoming 20+ minutes, Clutching our straws, With a one goal lead, Against **cking Gijon, In **cking camp nou, Further proof, That demonstrate the collapse of the cruyff legacy.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-fc-barcelona-sporting-gijon/
Atletico Madrid 1-2 FC Barcelona, September 2010
Now this time, It's really outside of camp nou, I'm not kidding, I promise, Ok. The problem is, This is AM in 2010, They were as much as nuisance or a threat to us, As espanyol or levante right now, But what you gonna do, Once a "pathetic" "coward" manager, Always "pathetic" "Coward" manager, After relying on the individual brilliance of messi to score the first goal and assisting the second, With us barely hanging on our 1 goal lead for 45 minutes, Pep decides to retract into his turtle shell, And replaces David villa for se......., I'm not gonna bother.
https://www.worldfootball.net/report/primera-division-2010-2011-atletico-madrid-fc-barcelona/
So yeah, It seems, The great pep, Had quite the knack for holding the results, Inside our own stadium, Of all places, What's amazing about all of this, Is that i didn't have to pick and choose across different seasons and competitions to force some non-existent narrative that pep is defensive sub lover, This is the same squad, In same legendary season, And in the same competition, And i was able to pull 6 examples within minutes by skimming through the matches in that la liga campaign, And i'm sure there are more examples i missed.
In an ideal world, After being exposed to these undeniable, Objective Observation about pep guardiola, People like you four, Should reach one of two conclusions, Either you come to the realization that pep isn't the same as you imagined or remembered him to be, And he also becomes a "pathetic" and a "coward" manager in your eyes, Because he repeatedly defensive subs and settles for winning by a one goal lead, OR you come to the other conclusion (The sensible one, If i might add), That trying to hold or not holding a result, Has absolutely jack s**t to do with our football or philosophy, Nor it has anything to do with any coach 'mentality, And that it's simply a common sense in football, And that the only reason we see this absurd narrative, Is because people like you either haven't been around the guardiola days (Or Rijkaard, Enrique, Tito, Tata..) Or have a c**p for a memory, Please, Try to surprise me, And be sensible and logical.
But who am i kidding, This is the internet, What could possibly be worse than being exposed for your BS online, Your egos are probably too fragile to handle that, So i'm expecting multiple measure to weasel your way out of the embarrassing conundrum you put yourselves in, In fact, I'll go the extra step, And predict them, Based on the level of desperation, In ascending order:
1-Ignore this post and pretend you never saw it (touché)
2-Nitpicking
3-Changing goals posts and red herrings
4-Straw-man
5-Get defensive
Who knows, Maybe you do think pep is just as coward and pathetic as valverde after all, And in that case, The joke is one me, And you have all the right to laugh at me, For unnecessarily wasting my time writing this long post.
Joan
Well-known member
People tend to leave the opponent out of the equation. We are not a team (if there is such) able to keep the ball and dominate possession for 90 minutes. The idea that Valverde with us not being comfortable without the ball decided to let them have it is entertaining.
Most teams in the league park the bus, try to defend without wanting the ball. Barca (usually) wins these type of games, against Getafes and Gironas. But when the opposition takes on us, applies pressure - we're often lost. No matter how big or small the team. Remember Eibar last season.
For me, Barca having to defend against anyone is not a problem in itself, but rather us not knowing how to. I'm more worried seeing us scrambling under pressure against Valladolid than seeing us sit behind the ball. We have to learn how to defend. One way or another. And I'm not talking extreme examples like Roma. Playing against proactive teams like Lopetegui's Real, Pep's City or Klopp's Liverpool will make us suffer. Feels like we are clueless without the ball. Maybe it used to work in the past, but not anymore.
Most teams in the league park the bus, try to defend without wanting the ball. Barca (usually) wins these type of games, against Getafes and Gironas. But when the opposition takes on us, applies pressure - we're often lost. No matter how big or small the team. Remember Eibar last season.
For me, Barca having to defend against anyone is not a problem in itself, but rather us not knowing how to. I'm more worried seeing us scrambling under pressure against Valladolid than seeing us sit behind the ball. We have to learn how to defend. One way or another. And I'm not talking extreme examples like Roma. Playing against proactive teams like Lopetegui's Real, Pep's City or Klopp's Liverpool will make us suffer. Feels like we are clueless without the ball. Maybe it used to work in the past, but not anymore.
serghei
Senior Member
[MENTION=12785]Garrus[/MENTION], what is your point exactly?
That Pep used to do at times what Valverde does constantly too? Of course I'm gonna be more critical with Valverde then Pep, because Pep served up gorgeous football 95% of the time, which makes it easier for me to accept that hey, in those 5%, shit happens and you need to hold it together. But with Valverde, bland football and grinding out wins is the norm, not the exception.
That Pep used to do at times what Valverde does constantly too? Of course I'm gonna be more critical with Valverde then Pep, because Pep served up gorgeous football 95% of the time, which makes it easier for me to accept that hey, in those 5%, shit happens and you need to hold it together. But with Valverde, bland football and grinding out wins is the norm, not the exception.
henias
New member
[MENTION=12785]Garrus[/MENTION]
I dont get the obsession with the comparing to Pep and try to bring them to the same level as much as possible. These 2 are definitely not the same in terms of their knowledge and depth in coaching. It's like saying just because Pep did bring defensive subs, automatically they are the same. Tbh, every manager does it, but to what extent is the question. I could even compare him with Lucho, who plays a more direct style of football. But thats not the point.
There's nothing wrong with defending the lead, but when done excessively then it becomes a problem, which brings my point to a bigger issue.
What problem? It's exactly the kind of mentality and ideas Valverde lacks. Just the same lineup, same predictable subs every game. Messi and Suarez are the untouchables, I get it for Messi but Suarez? Has been very questionable for the past few games yet plays a full 90 mins every game. It's always subbing Dembele no matter how well he plays. And I can already predict it will be like this the whole season.
And I'm actually glad you posted all the links. Just look at the starting lineups.
I dont get the obsession with the comparing to Pep and try to bring them to the same level as much as possible. These 2 are definitely not the same in terms of their knowledge and depth in coaching. It's like saying just because Pep did bring defensive subs, automatically they are the same. Tbh, every manager does it, but to what extent is the question. I could even compare him with Lucho, who plays a more direct style of football. But thats not the point.
There's nothing wrong with defending the lead, but when done excessively then it becomes a problem, which brings my point to a bigger issue.
What problem? It's exactly the kind of mentality and ideas Valverde lacks. Just the same lineup, same predictable subs every game. Messi and Suarez are the untouchables, I get it for Messi but Suarez? Has been very questionable for the past few games yet plays a full 90 mins every game. It's always subbing Dembele no matter how well he plays. And I can already predict it will be like this the whole season.
And I'm actually glad you posted all the links. Just look at the starting lineups.
Garrus
New member
First of all, Nice decoy, With the "What is your point exactly" followed by a question mark, You'd think after the long essay i wrote (Which i made sure that it is to the point), Would at least give you a basic idea of what is my point, But i guess, It was necessary for you to say this, To absolve yourself from the need reply to most of what i wrote, Which is evident by the poor effort you placed in your "rebuttal"?, Can it even be called that?.
So assuming you're an honest person, I'm sure you actually went ahead and measured things before you came up with the "at times" and "constantly", I'm interested to know the exact numbers you found, The methodology, And the sources you used, I'll be waiting for the web links you used to measure these, I happily provided mine, Waiting for yours.
Alright, Before we start with the rest of that sentence, You do realize that when comparing two things, An apple to apples kind of way. Or in this example, Using defensive subs, Having a predetermined prejudice toward either side, Is by definition, A bias, And an unfair comparison, But at least, You're being honest about this.
Again, Those are quite the exact percentages, I'm sure, Or rather i hope, You didn't pull them out of thin air and that you actually gone out and measured things, Just as i said above, I'm looking forward to knowing how you exactly came up with those percentages, Waiting for those spreadsheets, Or tables, Or web-links you used.
Again, You're inferring proportions in this, This time, I'll do the job you were supposed to do, And actually provide an objective source for said claim, And let's start it, By safely assuming that grinding out wins, In your definition, Or for all of us, As matter of a fact, Is winning by just a one goal margin (Which makes sense).
In our legendary 2010-2011 season, We won by a one goal margin in la liga:
9 times
And in all competitions: 10 times
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–11_FC_Barcelona_season
In valvede's first season in la liga:
6 times (Actually, It's 5 times, The 6th time was in the last match when we already won the league)
And in all competitions, 7-8 times (Depending on if you count that last match in la liga)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017–18_FC_Barcelona_season
This is quite the discrepancy in numbers for someone who's supposed to be grinding wins on a constant basis and the other one only "at times"
There are two ways i could classify what you just said, Either as a wrong statement, Or outright lie.
And it's a blatant lie by the way, Because to get the courtesy to just be called wrong, I need to have the assumption that you actually made an effort to investigate what you're about to say before spewing them into a reply, And that perhaps you missed something or interpret it wrong.
But it's clear, The "grinding out wins is the norm, not the exception" is nothing but a blatant lie on your part, Because there was zero effort to verify it, Thrown in a post, In the hope, That the one reading it, Is dumb enough not to go and actually check it up in some way.
And don't forget, i'll be waiting for you to provide the sources of the quantitative measures you happily enlightened us with.
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Garrus
New member
Oh the good old, Let me put a laughing emoji, To pretend i'm on top of things, When i actually can't reply with anything useful, Barely 40 words?, Jesus manI think you definitely wasted your time writing that long post when you're unable to differentiate between how Barcelona played under Pep or even Lucho in comparison to the quality of football displayed under Valverde.
Perhaps you should take your own advice
If you actually paid attention, What i wrote has nothing to do with "quality of football" or a grand comparison between the two, It's about a very specific topic, And that is substituting attackers for more defensive subs, That's pretty much it.
But congratulation, You've reached level 4 of the ascending order of desperation, And that level 4, is "straw-man"
I told you in that post that i'll predict the type of replies i'll get, You guys can't help it can you, Like a moth to a flame.
serghei
Senior Member
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When I say 95% it's a figure of speech. It means in the vast majority of times. It's a comment in a football forum, not a phd thesis. I trust you know the difference. If we are to write only comments containing scientifically proven numbers then we should just close the forum and do something else.
You see, the problem is that Valverde makes it seem as he is one of the guys who respects the Barca DNA. If you look at his conferences and at his words, you'd think he's the incarnation of Cruyff himself. So, when he says all those things, I expect him to act on it. This manager has been talking the big talk with little to no palpable action. He speaks how important La Masia is for this team, but when he has a meaningless CL game at home, in front of a 85.000 crowd against Sporting, instead of giving these kids a great night they would remember forever, he chooses to play the bench warmers who had no future in this team.
Pep, since you like the comparison so much, played Phil Foden in the CL round of 16 vs Basel, 17 year old kid. That right there is a difference in mentality and in actually caring about young players. More than just giving them a preseason tour (which most managers do anyway), then forgetting they exist during the real season. Even when it costs you nothing to give them a good game with the first team.
Again, this is not Stanford University mate. Everybody knows that percentages are used as a figure of speech on forums except for situations when it's clearly implied there is a statistical research backing them up. Just replace 95% with 'almost every time' if it makes you feel better.
Nope. Football is a sport, not mathematics. We beat United on Wembley 3-1. Even if Villa wouldn't have scored, and we would've won 2-1, this can't be called 'grinding out'. It's more in the manner of how we play than anything.
Stick to your math. I'm sure you're better at it than at interpreting football games. Cheers.
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Garrus
New member
Alright, You sound like a genuinely nice person, Who i'll happily have a discussion with, Unlike the two above who "tried" to be smart-a**es, And just fell on their heads.
If you see the quotes i replied to in my original post, They specifically related to those who apparently felt 'offended' and 'outraged' seeing us holding a 1-0 lead, And that only a 'pathetic' and a 'coward' coach who does this, And the main scope of what i wrote is just showing how pep did the same 'shameful' thing valverde got accused off, This is all what i was addressing, Nothing more, And i made sure to stay on this specific point, And there was nothing in what i wrote, That indicated that i was an 'overall' comparison between the two, And their 'football'.
When you say that valverde defends a lead 'excessively', Well that's on it's own just a subjective statement, To make it objective, You need to provide data that proves it, And i welcome for anyone to present me this.
And as for the predictable line-ups or subs, All i can say, Is that the 'predictability' has no bearing on actual results, And to prove my point, Look at this article from 2014, Regarding luis enrique:
https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/las-alineaciones-luis-enrique-3769512
He used 22 different line-ups in 22 matches, And the result was being behind madrid 4 points, And losing 10 points in la liga, TWICE the amount tata martino lost in the same part of the season, Worse than tata martino!, And after less than a month after this article was posted, The anoeta loss happened, And LE was inches away from being sacked, Things only started to get better after the AM match, And when he settled for his 'perfect' line up- And continued with it the rest of the season, To eventually win a treble.
Predictable line-ups, Starts to be a problem, When it's not delivering results, Which hasn't happened 'yet'.
No problem man, No need for exact percentages to be given, But even if you meant in 'majority', You must got that from somewhere, And i just want to know the source, Whatever that might be, Could you possibly get any less standard for a proof than this?, I'm making it super easy for you.
And even if it was just from your memory recollections, Again, You must have made some sort of a count in your head, And came up with the "At times" and "constantly", Share it with us, So we can analyze it.
Oh wait, Unless, The whole, "Constantly" and "at times", Just stems from a subjective, Me feely feely, And has no connection with the real world that can prove it, And in that case, No wonder, You said, Cheers, And ran away.
serghei
Senior Member
I got that from watching every game almost played between 2009 and now. I must have missed a total of 10 games in this time. If that's not enough, then by all means, carry on and don't bother replying to my comments.
I am not the data guy, with stats and percentages. [MENTION=16942]BBZ8800[/MENTION] is the one you look. When I use percentages in my comments I use them as a figure of speech and to emphasize something.
Couldn't care less what your stats say. Valverde is much more of a negative manager than Guardiola. Much less brave, much more scared of conceding a goal.
FC433
New member
Alright, You sound like a genuinely nice person, Who i'll happily have a discussion with, Unlike the two above who "tried" to be smart-a**es, And just fell on their heads.
If you see the quotes i replied to in my original post, They specifically related to those who apparently felt 'offended' and 'outraged' seeing us holding a 1-0 lead, And that only a 'pathetic' and a 'coward' coach who does this, And the main scope of what i wrote is just showing how pep did the same 'shameful' thing valverde got accused off, This is all what i was addressing, Nothing more, And i made sure to stay on this specific point, And there was nothing in what i wrote, That indicated that i was an 'overall' comparison between the two, And their 'football'.
When you say that valverde defends a lead 'excessively', Well that's on it's own just a subjective statement, To make it objective, You need to provide data that proves it, And i welcome for anyone to present me this.
And as for the predictable line-ups or subs, All i can say, Is that the 'predictability' has no bearing on actual results, And to prove my point, Look at this article from 2014, Regarding luis enrique:
https://www.sport.es/es/noticias/barca/las-alineaciones-luis-enrique-3769512
He used 22 different line-ups in 22 matches, And the result was being behind madrid 4 points, And losing 10 points in la liga, TWICE the amount tata martino lost in the same part of the season, Worse than tata martino!, And after less than a month after this article was posted, The anoeta loss happened, And LE was inches away from being sacked, Things only started to get better after the AM match, And when he settled for his 'perfect' line up- And continued with it the rest of the season, To eventually win a treble.
Predictable line-ups, Starts to be a problem, When it's not delivering results, Which hasn't happened 'yet'.
If Pep did what Valverde did that does not mean he was right. And one important fact to note is how we played most of the time under Pep and what we archived.
Valverde does not seem to actually understand what happened in Roma and that is really something we should not ignore.
I would not mind playing a bad game here and there, playing poor or making tactical mistakes when we play well most of the time and achieve our objectives. Roma defeat was quite different than Juve defeat. We were pathetic against Roma.
My point is, I do not mind poor performances, horrible tactical decisions if we manage to play well most of the time. I was bothered when we lost to AM and Juve in the CL, but our game against Roma was very very humiliating. I felt different despite the same results.
Waht Valverde did last game is a clear message. He has not yet learned what went wrong against Roma.
Garrus
New member
Ok, So the evidence of your claims, Are in in your head, And even though every game since 2009, Has been documented in detail, You can't point me to anything in the real world, That i can investigate to verify the said claims and evidence in your head?
So it appears your claims are unfalsifiable, This is absolutely amazing, Never thought of doing that, When being stuck in a corner in an argument before.
As for the "Couldn't care less what your stats say", Well this doesn't get said by someone who's open-minded and actually looking to gain knowledge or seek a truth, Limited as they are, They're still a reflection and an interpretation of the real world.
But what do you expect from some one, Who backs up his claims by evidence that can only be found in his head, What a joke.
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