10 - Lionel Messi - v5

[MessiCam]

Messi doesn't receive the ball in dangerous areas because he barely moves, is this that difficult to understand?

There was always a an opponent between the ball and Messi and Messi didn't move to receive the ball and break free from the Croatia player.

Do you think it's normal that a player covers only 7.5km while the average for a forward is 8.5-9?

Even someone who doesn't follow football just looking at a Barca or Argentina match would notice how static Messi is.

You keep saying this but Aguero moves, and moves a lot and he saw even less of the ball than Messi. But that’s because Messi is able to fetch it...

The problem is the midfield not being able to get the ball into the right zones quick enough. Other than the spray and pray crap how many vertical balls were played into dangerous areas? No amount of movement can fix that.

Argentina made 398 inclusive of 14 long passes. 266 of those passes were back and square passes. Not 1 of Mascherano or Pérez made 1 vertical pass from midfield.

 

[JamDav1982]

Who's? Ronaldo's? Rubbish how often does Ronaldo have to drop back to the centre circle to start moves because the midfield and defence are useless at getting the ball forward?

How often was Messi 'starting moves' from half way line?

Anyway that is not Ronaldos game and can say how often did Messi get on the end of crosses when teams sit deep or how often Messi run at teams playing high line like Croatia did tonight?

Portugal have not been as bad as Argentina tonight but they have been poor in first two games and Ronaldo been far and away their top player.

 

[JamDav1982]

You keep saying this but Aguero moves, and moves a lot and he saw even less of the ball than Messi. But that’s because Messi is able to fetch it...

The problem is the midfield not being able to get the ball into the right zones quick enough. Other than the spray and pray crap how many vertical balls were played into dangerous areas? No amount of movement can fix that.

Argentina made 398 inclusive of 14 long passes. 266 of those passes were back and square passes. Not 1 of Mascherano or Pérez made 1 vertical pass from midfield.

Aguero plays further up than Messi and if it breaks down before him it will result in him seeing ball less also.

Higuain showed better movement and as a result got on ball more in better areas.

The problem is that the Argentina midfield is not great technically to pick quick passes forward and Messi as the link makes the problem worse through lack of movement.

 

[Stoichkov1]

You keep saying this but Aguero moves, and moves a lot and he saw even less of the ball than Messi. But that’s because Messi is able to fetch it...

The problem is the midfield not being able to get the ball into the right zones quick enough. Other than the spray and pray crap how many vertical balls were played into dangerous areas? No amount of movement can fix that.

Argentina made 398 inclusive of 14 long passes. 266 of those passes were back and square passes. Not 1 of Mascherano or Pérez made 1 vertical pass from midfield.

Aguero is a striker and he's not supposed to touch the ball many times.

Surely the midfield is not good enough but the main problem is Messi who doesn't move enough.

Messi's lack of movement also shows at Barca where he is surrounded by a world class midfield.

Against teams who play a high line like Roma or Croatia today the midfield wasn't able to find Messi and again the whole Barca forum blames the midfield instead of Messi who does nothing to make himself available to receive a pass.

 

[Joan]

Patricio was great in the 2nd game, the cross for the header was good.

But more than that, Portugal have a proper approach. They can actually attack on the break and in enough space to not face down 8 or 9 defenders every play. They can construct real passing moves, and create open shot opportunities for Ronaldo. The ball progresses into good areas and open spaces in the opponent half, entirely regardless of Ronaldo. It's not the best football but it's functional at forming attacks.

Argentina on the other hand are completely incapable of counterattacking because they shoot for hopeless long balls and can't connect ground passes fluidly or quickly enough to do it. Mascherano is the biggest culprit, I've rarely ever seen a single player slow down a game so much. Maybe never. He's so slow in the head and shut down by pressure that he alone allows the opponent defense to settle into strong lines where they can effectively contain Messi and co.

Don't get me wrong, Portugal is the better team. Moutinho as a deep lying playmaker, Carvalho covering for him, options on the wings etc. They rely on crosses and usually do well.

But Ronaldo did well so far. He's behind the goals, not some great team play. Argentina is really poor, so badly managed team.

 

[Gaunter O Dimm]

How often was Messi 'starting moves' from half way line?

Anyway that is not Ronaldos game and can say how often did Messi get on the end of crosses when teams sit deep or how often Messi run at teams playing high line like Croatia did tonight?

Portugal have not been as bad as Argentina tonight but they have been poor in first two games and Ronaldo been far and away their top player.

Doesn't matter if it was once or ten times because it shows he has no confidence in his team mates and I dont blame him, his biggest mistake was not doing it from the start. I know he was poor, but what I'm trying to say is nobody could perform in the set up he's in.

 

[DonAndres]

Aguero is a striker and he's not supposed to touch the ball many times.

Surely the midfield is not good enough but the main problem is Messi who doesn't move enough.

Messi's lack of movement also shows at Barca where is surrounder by a world class midfield.

Against teams who play a high line like Roma or Croatia today the midfield wasn't able to find Messi and again the whole Barca forum blames the midfield instead of Messi who does nothing to make himself available to receive a pass.

You're crazy if you think Messi is a bigger problem than that midfield. Utterly crazy. He takes his share of the blame but by absolutely no definition is he the "main problem", I couldn't fathom believing that.

Modric himself said Messi needs more help. Sampaoli outright said the team is dysfunctional and can't get the ball where they want it to go. You could take Messi out of the equation and put in Dybala, and they still would barely ever have gotten him the ball. They were incapable of making those passes, time and time again. Same deal against Iceland, same deal in all of the WCQ (especially without Messi). They got completely destroyed in many of the qualifiers without him and the friendlies where he didn't play, showing the exact same problem of not being able to break lines.

 

[JamDav1982]

Doesn't matter if it was once or ten times because it shows he has no confidence in his team mates and I dont blame him, his biggest mistake was not doing it from the start. I know he was poor, but what I'm trying to say is nobody could perform in the set up he's in.

He played like he had no confidence in himself or his team mates and was completely ineffective.

Dont agree that no one could do better.

A player that defends more, moves more and shows some fight even an fairly average player could have more impact than he did tonight.

Still a shite performance from team that he cant be blamed for or expect victory but when he is that inept it is hard to watch.

 

[Barcaman]

Coaching plays a part here too. Dalic (Cro manager) changed the formation from Nigeria, benched Kramaric and put Brozovic in who helped cutting space from Messi.

 

[jj_101]

Put CR with this Argentina squad and they go out just as fast.

Apart from Messi and Ronaldo, What does Portugal have that Argentina don't?
Portugal has nothing. Portugal let in 3 goals just like Argentina, the difference is Ronaldo scored three.
If you put Ronaldo in Argentina you have a much better team.

 

[Stoichkov1]

You're crazy if you think Messi is a bigger problem than that midfield. Utterly crazy. He takes his share of the blame but by absolutely no definition is he the "main problem", I couldn't fathom believing that.

Modric himself said Messi needs more help. Sampaoli outright said the team is dysfunctional and can't get the ball where they want it to go. You could take Messi out of the equation and put in Dybala, and they still would barely ever have gotten him the ball. They were incapable of making those passes, time and time again. Same deal against Iceland, same deal in all of the WCQ (especially without Messi). They got completely destroyed in many of the qualifiers without him and the friendlies where he didn't play, showing the exact same problem of not being able to break lines.

For Argentina Messi isn't a bigger problem than the midfield, for Barca clearly his way of playing damages the team.

For the league what he does will be enough but he will look this bad in UCL against better teams.

 

[jj_101]

Sampoli should get a Tyson face tattoo.

 

[Barcaman]

Portugal are a better team, jj. And again, manager plays a part too.

 

[KingMessi]

Apart from Messi and Ronaldo, What does Portugal have that Argentina don't?
Portugal has nothing. Portugal let in 3 goals just like Argentina, the difference is Ronaldo scored three.
If you put Ronaldo in Argentina you have a much better team.

Spain would put in 5 against this Argentina on an off day.

 

[JamDav1982]

Spain would put in 5 against this Argentina on an off day.

And no one would score three v them.