Arthur

[Raketa10]

Modric didn't go straight from Dinamo Zagreb to Real Madrid, though. He had spells on loan and then played for a lower tier team (At the time) In Tottenham for years before going to Madrid. Unless our plan with Arthur is to do the same, that's a nonsense comparison.

Any accomplishment he has in Brazil amounts to beating children. He's obviously wanted for his play style but he has no achievements to prove his quality, no European experience to indicate he'll be able to make the jump, and no NT experience to suggest he can gel with world class teammates in a pressure environment.

I'm not predicting he'll flop or saying I don't expect him to do well, but as far as I'm concerned he's as likely to succeed here as the average Barca B player, and we all know how likely that is.

What loans? He was loaned to Zrinjski and Inter Zapresic (that’s basically Barca B level) when he was 19 years old and after that he played in Dinamo and went to Tottenham. He also made his NT debut when he was Arthur’s age. Also remember that those were different times, you actually had to prove yourself before someone was willing to pay 30 million for you. I am not trying to compare Modric with Arthur but labeling him as a future flop before we even saw him play is just wrong and some people here are doing that.

Let’s say Arthur went to Tottenham and excelled there we would have to pay ludicrous amount of money to get him or we would be unable to do that at all (Verratti case). So this was basically the only way for us. We took the risk and we’ll see what will happen.

Look at Gomes, he had La Liga experience and you can see what happened. Experience is just one of the factors and honestly I would always opt for a player without experience but with required qualities because experience will come with time.

In the end I personally don’t know much about this guy (except youtube clips and articles) so I can’t make any judgement on him but I really hope we did our homework.

Next year we might have two very talented midfielders in out first team (Alena and Arthur) and I choose to be optimistic about that. Will they succeed or not only time will tell.

 

[Co0ter]

It was clear to many that goes was average at best even before we bought him. He was really nothing special at Valencia and he had a bad Euro. There was no reason to buy him other than his sweet head of hair.

 

[xXKonan]

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[George_Costanza]

It was clear to many that goes was average at best even before we bought him. He was really nothing special at Valencia and he had a bad Euro. There was no reason to buy him other than his sweet head of hair.

It was more like Valencia were desperate to offload players to comply with FFP and Roberto (Ex Valencia Sporting Director) helped them to do that at our expense. Roberto, Mendes and an idiot manager like Lucho combo what got us players like Gomes.

 

[BBZ8800]

I see a lot of posts here lately how Gomes and Denis were always a crap.
And how they never possessed any skills, unlike Arthur, who is a totally different story.

As always, let's breathe and read a few pages of comments when we signed Gomes.
We can see posts how he is a better fit than Pogba, how he is one of the best young midfielders in the world, how we are lucky to have stole him infront of RM:
http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/12572-21-André-quot-Despacito-quot-Gomes/page5

To be honest, back then Gomes looked even better than a current Arthur.
Just sayin...

 

[Barcaman]

Denis was a logical and smart buy considering he did great at Villarreal.
If circumstances were the similar with some other player club would do well to do the same.

 

[Jombi]

I see a lot of posts here lately how Gomes and Denis were always a crap.
And how they never possessed any skills, unlike Arthur, who is a totally different story.

As always, let's breathe and read a few pages of comments when we signed Gomes.
We can see posts how he is a better fit than Pogba, how he is one of the best young midfielders in the world, how we are lucky to have stole him infront of RM:
http://www.barcaforum.com/showthread.php/12572-21-André-quot-Despacito-quot-Gomes/page5

To be honest, back then Gomes looked even better than a current Arthur.
Just sayin...

Gomes was always mediocre. There's no denying it. You can always find people praising any player, it means nothing. I am not totally convinced by the games I've seen from Arthur either, but at least we are getting a young midfielder, which we really need and you were against signing. You suggested Seri instead when I argued we still need another midfielder after Coutinho is signed, but we need younger blood considering Raki, Iniesta, Busi and Paulinho are all on the wrong side of 30 in a few months time and Coutinho is too attacking to play in a midfield 3 on a regular basis. The management has been doing well lately trying to reduce the age of the squad, to the despair of those who prefer players closer to 30.

 

[JamDav1982]

It was more like Valencia were desperate to offload players to comply with FFP and Roberto (Ex Valencia Sporting Director) helped them to do that at our expense. Roberto, Mendes and an idiot manager like Lucho combo what got us players like Gomes.

Making up complete rubbish as usual....Roberto helping out Valencia.

Roberto liked Gomes and so did Lucho simple as that.

 

[BBZ8800]

Denis was a logical and smart buy considering he did great at Villarreal.
If circumstances were the similar with some other player club would do well to do the same.

Denis was a logical attempt considering his price and skills.

But my point was this thing that happens all the time:

1. we buy a player No1
People are hyped about him in the beginning and believe that he is the next big thing.
2 years later, he flops.

2. we buy a player No2 with more or less similar skills as a player No1 (or a similar sum of all skills, each has some pros and cons).
People are hyped about him in the beginning.
2 years later, he flops.

But now comes an interesting thing:
3. we buy a player no3 with more or less similar skills like players No1 and No2.
People are as equally as hyped as when we bought players No1 and No2.
Some users reply: but guys, you thought exactly the same about players No1 and No2.
And now guys use revisionism and reply: no, no, no, guys 1 and 2 always sucked and were never as good as a guy No3 whom we have just bought.

In majority of cases, what happens?
A guy no3 flops in 2 years and we buy a guy no4 with exactly the same skills as guys no1, 2 and 3.
And people will get crazy again: he is the next big thing.
If you tell them that they said exactly the same for players 1, 2 and 3, they will reply each time: no, no. This guy is totally different, you can see it right away. These previous guys never looked as good as a shiny new guy.

I mean, yes, eventually one guy will succeed and people will be able to say: you see, this guy was different.
But I personally don't like this revisionism of opinions how guys who have already flopped were bad from the day 1.

You can see the same scenario whenever we buy a new player and with La Masia kids.
For example, if you tell to people that Alena won't make it, the same as Samper, people will say: lol, Alena is a totally different case and has way more potential than Samper.
If you tell them that Oriol maybe won't make it because we had lots of similar cases, a reply will be: you don't understand football. Oriol is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than any other guy whom we had in the 10-20 years.

The point:
Each new La Masia kid who is young is "totally different/with way more potential" than all other guys who flopped in recent years.
The same is with majority of signings.

I mean, I don't have a crystal ball and I have no idea whether Arthur will make it, but for now I don't see too many reasons for optimism compared to a young Rafinha in his age (dominated in Celta), Gomes in his age (NT player, one of "the best young midfielders in the world", class passing, vision and dribbling), young Denis in his age (the true Iniesta's successor).

Imo, people are making exactly the same mistake with every new player whom we buy.
"He is totally different than all other players whom we bought in recent years"

 

[Raketa10]

Denis was a logical attempt considering his price and skills.

But my point was this thing that happens all the time:

1. we buy a player No1
People are hyped about him in the beginning and believe that he is the next big thing.
2 years later, he flops.

2. we buy a player No2 with more or less similar skills as a player No1 (or a similar sum of all skills, each has some pros and cons).
People are hyped about him in the beginning.
2 years later, he flops.

But now comes an interesting thing:
3. we buy a player no3 with more or less similar skills like players No1 and No2.
People are as equally as hyped as when we bought players No1 and No2.
Some users reply: but guys, you thought exactly the same about players No1 and No2.
And now guys use revisionism and reply: no, no, no, guys 1 and 2 always sucked and were never as good as a guy No3 whom we have just bought.

In majority of cases, what happens?
A guy no3 flops in 2 years and we buy a guy no4 with exactly the same skills as guys no1, 2 and 3.
And people will get crazy again: he is the next big thing.
If you tell them that they said exactly the same for players 1, 2 and 3, they will reply each time: no, no. This guy is totally different, you can see it right away. These previous guys never looked as good as a shiny new guy.

I mean, yes, eventually one guy will succeed and people will be able to say: you see, this guy was different.
But I personally don't like this revisionism of opinions how guys who have already flopped were bad from the day 1.

You can see the same scenario whenever we buy a new player and with La Masia kids.
For example, if you tell to people that Alena won't make it, the same as Samper, people will say: lol, Alena is a totally different case and has way more potential than Samper.
If you tell them that Oriol maybe won't make it because we had lots of similar cases, a reply will be: you don't understand football. Oriol is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than any other guy whom we had in the 10-20 years.

The point:
Each new La Masia kid who is young is "totally different/with way more potential" than all other guys who flopped in recent years.
The same is with majority of signings.

I mean, I don't have a crystal ball and I have no idea whether Arthur will make it, but for now I don't see too many reasons for optimism compared to a young Rafinha in his age (dominated in Celta), Gomes in his age (NT player, one of "the best young midfielders in the world", class passing, vision and dribbling), young Denis in his age (the true Iniesta's successor).

Imo, people are making exactly the same mistake with every new player whom we buy.
"He is totally different than all other players whom we bought in recent years"

BBZ no one is saying he will make it for sure and I understand your concern but you have to admit his style of play is much different than of those two. Denis is not even a proper midfielder, he is some kind of physically weak hybrid between midfielder and winger and Gomes is slow, mentally weak but physically stronger player whose position on the field was never determined. Even now I dont know would he function in some other team better as a AM of RM or CM or DM. He was never a good fit and I am not sure we even knew what position was he intended to play. With Arthur it’s clear we are trying to replicate Xavi style to some extent.

As things stand now we had 3 options.

1. Buy ludicrously expensive well established CM player and hope he would immediately upgrade our team (problem is I don’t see a player with those qualities on the market right now)
2. Take a risk and buy young talented player from other club
3. Go with La Massia

As I can see we choose to go with second and third option (Alena + Arthur) and I am fine with than. The trouth is both of them might flop but if just one of them succeds it would be great. I am not against buying a world class midfielder but let’s be fair, who can we buy? Verratti is off limits, Thiago is injured 24/7 and also probably off limits and appart from those two I can’t see any controling midfielder out there who would immediately upgrade our starting 11.

Are we risking with Arthur and Alena? We are, especially if Iniesta ends up in China this summer but I currently don’t see any other solution. If they both flop we will find ourselves in a BIG problem next summer but let’s hope this won't be a case.

 

[Luftstalag14]

Denis was a logical attempt considering his price and skills.

But my point was this thing that happens all the time:

1. we buy a player No1
People are hyped about him in the beginning and believe that he is the next big thing.
2 years later, he flops.

2. we buy a player No2 with more or less similar skills as a player No1 (or a similar sum of all skills, each has some pros and cons).
People are hyped about him in the beginning.
2 years later, he flops.

But now comes an interesting thing:
3. we buy a player no3 with more or less similar skills like players No1 and No2.
People are as equally as hyped as when we bought players No1 and No2.
Some users reply: but guys, you thought exactly the same about players No1 and No2.
And now guys use revisionism and reply: no, no, no, guys 1 and 2 always sucked and were never as good as a guy No3 whom we have just bought.

In majority of cases, what happens?
A guy no3 flops in 2 years and we buy a guy no4 with exactly the same skills as guys no1, 2 and 3.
And people will get crazy again: he is the next big thing.
If you tell them that they said exactly the same for players 1, 2 and 3, they will reply each time: no, no. This guy is totally different, you can see it right away. These previous guys never looked as good as a shiny new guy.

I mean, yes, eventually one guy will succeed and people will be able to say: you see, this guy was different.
But I personally don't like this revisionism of opinions how guys who have already flopped were bad from the day 1.

You can see the same scenario whenever we buy a new player and with La Masia kids.
For example, if you tell to people that Alena won't make it, the same as Samper, people will say: lol, Alena is a totally different case and has way more potential than Samper.
If you tell them that Oriol maybe won't make it because we had lots of similar cases, a reply will be: you don't understand football. Oriol is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than any other guy whom we had in the 10-20 years.

The point:
Each new La Masia kid who is young is "totally different/with way more potential" than all other guys who flopped in recent years.
The same is with majority of signings.

I mean, I don't have a crystal ball and I have no idea whether Arthur will make it, but for now I don't see too many reasons for optimism compared to a young Rafinha in his age (dominated in Celta), Gomes in his age (NT player, one of "the best young midfielders in the world", class passing, vision and dribbling), young Denis in his age (the true Iniesta's successor).

Imo, people are making exactly the same mistake with every new player whom we buy.
"He is totally different than all other players whom we bought in recent years"

What should we do then? Should we stop signing these young players and only buy established and proven players?

 

[xXKonan]

When it comes to BBZ will any young player satisfy him?

Very rarely you will see him heap praise towards a young player and instead he keeps writing paragraphs of the same shit nit picking on the flaws of a younger player. Dude won't stop until we load up the team full of tall, Physical old as shit workhorses.

 

[CatalinR10]

What should we do then? Should we stop signing these young players and only buy established and proven players?

absolutely .

Since any good/ established players are at least 70 mil these days , we should clearly spend every summer like 250-300 mil only on established players since non established players with huge potential , and i'm talking real potential like Arthur not pretenders like Denis or Gomes , clearly will flop at Barca.



Please...Arthur looks like the real deal. I was never impressed by either Denis or Gomes or whoever whenever I saw their replays on youtube.

People complained about Neymar cause he was playing in Brazil and he will flop as soon as he will face the harsh reality of the elite football in Europe , only for him to end up being top 3 player in the world.

Sure , Arthur cand be a failure for whatever reason but i have high hopes on him.

 

[George_Costanza]

Making up complete rubbish as usual....Roberto helping out Valencia.

Roberto liked Gomes and so did Lucho simple as that.

Roberto liked Gomes because he only knew few players at the time, his ex club players. He brought Gomes and Paco and we had a strong interest in Cancelo and Adil Rami if we could afford them. Those are facts you can't deny.

 

[JamDav1982]

Roberto liked Gomes because he only knew few players at the time, his ex club players. He brought Gomes and Paco and we had a strong interest in Cancelo and Adil Rami if we could afford them. Those are facts you can't deny.

No you are purely guessing how many players he knew of at the time but he and Lucho clearly liked the look of Gomes. It was nothing to do with helping Valencia with FFP.

Adil Rami has never been anywhere near joining Barca.